Do you have any thoughts or advice on this topic?
Click here to share them with us

The minister's salary may be one of the more controversial issues in the church and para-church ministry setting.  In my early ministry days, I served as one of the associate pastors in a large suburban mainline church.  I remember the issue of the pastor's salary coming up in my confirmation class and suddenly I found my youngsters in the middle of a hot debate.  A few of them strongly felt that a pastor should not get paid at all. Ministers, according to this view, are called by God and should live "on faith." 

Others felt that pastors should get paid, but that the salary should be lower than the average salary of the church members. Baffled by these sentiments, I told them that a lot of ministers go to school for seven years and often even have a masters degree.  To my surprise, most of my confirmation "kids" said that even so they didn't think that ministers should earn as much as people who hold a secular job.

Frankly, I was shocked to hear such opinions expressed.  It was my first innocent encounter with the double standard that exists in many ministry places.

Setting the pastor's salary may be one of the most sensitive issues for both the minister and the church board.  Norman Adamson reflects on one of his experiences:

At first they wanted to debate my salary publicly at the open board meeting. I thought I preserved my dignity by convincing the board to discuss it with me in private. I was wrong.Two board members walked into my office, closed the door behind them, folded their arms sternly across their chests, and said to me, "How much do you want?" There has to be a better way to establish a pastor's salary. [1]

One of the problems may be that neither the bible nor church history gives us clear ministry salary guidelines. The apostle Paul, for instance, emphasizes throughout his writings his "tent-making" approach to ministry--he supported himself by a secular job and hardly ever accepted monetary gifts. So, in the absence of biblical precedent, what are some dependable ways to determine a minister's salary?

How to determine a minister's salary:

1. One way of effectively determining a minister's salary is by adhering to the minimum recommended (or mandatory) salary within a connectional (or episcopal) denomination.

2. A "second method is to average the salaries of the church's leadership board. I reason with the board that most churches feel their pastor is at least equally valuable to a church as the other leaders. Therefore, a survey of the lay leaders' incomes, including social security and benefits, is an equitable way to determine what a pastor's peers within the church are making." [2]

3. Another "method acknowledges that a pastor compares in many ways to a teacher—in duties, continuing education, and role in the community. The salary package, therefore, should equate to what a local teacher with comparable education and experience would be paid. In addition, because a teacher's health insurance, social security, and often pension contribution are included, a local church should compensate for these as well." [3]

4. A fourth way is by national comparative salary statistics.   The following table shows the comparable salary averages for ministers in the United States in the year 2000 (source: Clergy Salaries in Congregations, Alban Institute, September/October 2002 issue, p. 7):

Concluding remarks:
The issue of ministry salaries will likely remain a sensitive and controversial one for years to come.  Hopefully this little article as well as the thoughts shared by our colleagues below will get you started on a quest for the appropriate method and approach to help you and your peers determine a fair ministry salary package.

Do you have any thoughts or advice on this topic?
Click here to share them with us

_____________________________________
[1] How Much Is a Pastor Worth? 3 ways to determine a fair salary, with perks. -- in ChristianityToday.com
[2] ibid.
[3] ibid.
[4] Clergy Salaries in Congregations, Alban Institute, September/October 2002 issue, p. 7.

Bibliography:
Clergy Salaries in Congregations, Alban Institute, September/October 2002 issue, pp. 6-11.
How Much Is a Pastor Worth? 3 ways to determine a fair salary, with perks. -- in ChristianityToday.com

- How Much Is a Pastor Worth? 3 ways to determine a fair salary,
   with perks. -- in ChristianityToday.com
- Features: Salary Negotiation For The Hesitant - LeadershipJournal
- The Pastor's Salary Under A Depreciated Currency
- Setting the Pastor's Salary
- Pastor's Salary Guidelines for 2003 - MC Canada

Do you have any thoughts or advice on this topic?
Please share them with us:

Your Thoughts on Salaries in the Ministry:

Date: 01 Oct 2002

Contribution

testing

Date: 03 Oct 2002

Contribution

Determining a pastor's salary is complicated. The cost of living varies between settings and the pastor's experience and gifts should be accounted. To simply average the leadership's income does not work in older congregations where many of leaders are living on retirement. As vague reference I think that the pastor's salary should be in the top 40% of the congregation. The reality is we work for the Lord and not for the money, but the electric company does care - they want money! The best advice I have is to pray and then either accept the offer with open and thankful arms so seek a new place to minister.

In Christ, Rev. Steve Richardson

Date: 11 Oct 2002

Contribution

I come to this issue from a somewhat different background than (I suspect) most readers have. My previous career was in corporate human resources where I dealt with retirement benefits and the definition of "compensation" used to calculate benefits.

When I first entered ministry, I had a difficult time trying to understand why why both the local church and the denominational leaders insisted on including reimbursment of expenses and the ministers pension and health coverage as part of the "package."

I believe that the reason for the denominational leadership's adoption of this landmark is driven by two considerations.

1) Using all funds paid to the minister makes comparisons easy, if not particulary accurate. How do denominational leaders compare the "value" of a small congregation that sees no value in reimbursing the pastor for taking a member or visitor out to lunch, with a huge congregation that provides a country club membership for the minister to socialize with some church leaders, members and potential members -- as well as community leaders who can advance the ministries of the church?

2) Denominational clergy leaders, I believe, also want to be "responsive" to denominational lay leaders. Although the lay leaders may being looking at an entirely different standard than is used to evaluate their own compensation and "value" to their own emloyers.

Through my conversations with church leaders -- including being laity in my church before entering the ministry -- most church leaders are not looking at ministerial compensation, but at the cost to the church! This includes not only the salary and benfits for the minister, but also all the expense that person incurs on behalf of the church.

In the corporate world, if an individual is paid $20,000 a year, that salary excludes, benefits and expenses related to their job. It is rare that anyone with a masters, much less a doctorate, would be paid a base salary that low, even with absolutely no experience. YET, in the consideration of many church leaders, that $20,000 should be increased by other costs to the church, including: pension; health insurance; reimbursements for mileage; reimbursements for office and worship supplies; utilities; and, parsonage (including insurance). Now the embarassing $20,000, becomes a reasonable $50,000.

From my experience, this inflated ministers compensation leads lay leaders to compare their own salary of $50,000 to the ministers "package" of $50,000 and decide that their pastor is paid appropriately, even well.

Besides, if God has called a person to ministry, why should we even have to pay the preacher? Didn't our folks just give the preacher a couple of chickens and a bag of flour? What more should a preacher need?

Why the different standard? Perhaps all of us -- laity and clergy alike -- are somewhat unclear about the "value" we bring to the church. In our society, money IS used to determine value. So when individuals approach their call humbly, with fear and trembling; the world (who is used to being sold on the great "value" of deodorant and soda) does not recognize much "value" in the ministerial role, unless they see attendance and offerings going up.

But now I have crossed over into a different conversation.

Grace and Peace -- and know that you are of infinite worth to the God who redeems us through Jesus Christ and strengthens us through the Holy Spirit.

Charley in NETex

Date: 11 Oct 2002

Contribution

I come to the ministry from nursing. I was much better compensated in nursing and knew that I would make less as a pastor. What I see is pastor's who don't want to deal with the economic problems of their church or talk money or giving and then don't take raises for years on end because their churches are poor. When they retire their churches are shocked by what they have to pay a new pastor when in reality they should have been paying a living wage to the previous one. This idea that we make less because we are called is ridiculous. I remember telling a congregant who had just bought a new Van that I had a van like that when I went to Seminary, but it was repossessed. He said, "When you are called, you are called." No we are all called. If we weren't afraid to talk about real stewardship then the churches wouldn't be so poor and stingy with their pastors. I have a new member who says he doesn't understand why we can't afford a full time pastor anymore. He says if ten families tithed then we could call a pasotr who made on average what the congregation makes. I wish I had more members who looked at theings the way he does. He sees us as partners in this ministry and the money that all of us have been given as tools for the ministry.

Date: 12 Oct 2002

Contribution

Of course what the pastor makes is part of the public record. What the congregants amke is more secret than their sex lives. I am part of a connectional denomonation that just raised the health insurance premimums 28% again this year. That means that I pay another $1,500 and the congregation gets to pay another $2500 this year. I am going to get a 3% raise $969 which is the minimum that is set to give. Oh yeah, this is really encouraging when the expectations are so high for all that I do. And I have one woman who says'Well you knew this whne you came into the ministry." I was called to serve. I have a MDIV and more towards a doctorate. I pay a college loan. The bank doesn't care that I am a pastor. The electric company doesn't care. I drive old cars to save money. My congregations drive new cars and SUV's. Their children have all the newest stuff and they take great vacations. I spent my last week of vacation last year cleaning house. Only God's blessings mke this calling worth the while. PSin IA

Date: 16 Oct 2002

Contribution

As the story was told, John Claypool was being courted to NYC some years ago from his Alabama Episcopal church. He would only have to preach and write...that's it, no administration, no personnel stuff or counselling, just preach and write at this downtown Episcopal Cathedral. The search/pulpit committee met with him and one reported influential member said, "okay, what's it going to take to get you to come?" Claypool's response was, "I don't do business that way", and left. rj in fs

Date: 19 Oct 2002

Contribution

Denominations tend to set standards for salaries based on experience and education. I believe that a pastor's salary should not be related to the number of people in the church. For some with great pastoral abilities and experience working in a small church or medium sized church could grow that church and increase it's income. But because they cannot afford someone of the talent or experience they need to pull them through a tough time they tend to spiral into death. If there was a set standard and the denominations collected income for pastors and paid their pastors according to education and experience that would take the awkwardness out of the salary debate. Lay people are not great judges of salary for pastors. All of the double standards etc get in the way of sound judgement. Also when pastors get paid $85,000 and their associates get paid $25,000 there is too much descrepency. Middle sized churches get in a bind where they can't continue to pay the Sr. Pastor a cost of living raise when he has been there for years and hire any other pastors with a decent salary. Youth ministry, Christian Education then gets shorted. Then there is the matter of pastoral relations committees. Some believe they should base any kind of salary raise on merit. How does one measure the meret of a pastor that has such immeasurable duties. Pastors who can raise the most money get the highest salaries. No wonder our churches become spiritually bankrupt. Take the salary question out of the pastoral role and my guess is the pastor's position will gain back the dignity it deserves. We are not hired hands of the congregation. We are called by God to be set apart, to gain knowledge and experience leading the people of God, and to bring the presence and knowledge of God's holy spirit in the midst of the people. Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and God what is God's. Budgets are hard enough without the pastor feeling guilty for an income that allows him/her the freedom to be present to the people of God.

Date: 22 Oct 2002

Contribution

I find it ironic that we as pastors are having to lobby to be paid the equivalent compensation of people in the teaching profession. Teachers are consistently underpaid. Your average person on the street would not argue with this statement. And teachers work a 10 month year, typically, and have built in vacation times at all the major holidays. Pastors work 12 months, most weekends, and all the major holidays, too. It is sad that the value we (teachers and pastors) bring is inversely proportional to the compensation we receive. There is a small amount of protection for those of us in a connectional system that sets minimum standards. However,last month when the presbytery packet with the report of the incoming pastors salaries arrived, I could not help but notice that the package offered to a recent (this year) seminary graduate exceeded mine. I have a doctorate and 20 years of experience, my congregation is relative in size to his, (and has grown by 50% over the last 12 months.) My congregation will pay what it has to to keep pastoral leadership, but at some point its up to me to say what I'm worth. They aren't going to figure it out on their own! Perhaps it is time for connectional systems to have more than one minimum: recent graduate minimum, doctoral minimum, some adjustment for years of service. While I doubt the PCUSA would ever "head tax" and pay from some central fund, the serious shortage of pastors is going to hit congregations in the face as more retire and the young ones simply won't take a paltry sum. A variety of minimums would at least be a starting point for those of us who know we have to stand up for ourselves. Also, the housing debate figures here and hasn't been raised. Two decades ago my denomination started selling off its housing that had been traditionally used for retired pastors who had no equity due to years of manse living. It was a form of subsidy that pstors knew could be a fall back for retirement. Congregations as a whole need to realize that in order to not be a burden on society or the church we have to earn a reasonable wage to prepare for those years. -Fl pastor thinking about another kind of employment

Date: 23 Oct 2002

Contribution

12 years of ordination--I have worked at "part-time" calls as part as a clergy couple. Now I have accepted a call as solo pastor at a 200+ member church and will be receiving more than the Presbytery minimum. I have still to make as much money as I did as a sales representative 16 years ago.

When a minimum is set--the judicatory should enforce it and not play games allowing "part-time" calls. There are part time pay packets but all ministry is full time. In the middle of the night I'm not going to say to the distraught woman calling from the hospital, "No, I can't come because I worked all my hours this week. See you Tuesday." No, I put on regular clothes and drive to the hospital and pray with her and her dying husband of 60 years. Then after his death I stay until her brother can come and take her home. I love what I do--it will be nice to be fairly paid to do it in my new call.

In my search I told a number of committees that they would have to dig deeper to come up with better pay to attract candidates for their pulpits. I hope they heard what I had to say. Some were offering as little as $2000 more than the 3/4 call I already had--forget it, folks, having a pastor has to be worth more than $20,000 a year. Perhaps we need to let some congregations go out of existence rather than create a second class of clergy called Commissioned Lay Pastors who work cheap. That's another issue. Underpaid Presbyterian Pastor No More.

Date: 26 Oct 2002

Contribution

As an Australian ordained in a connectional church (The Uniting Church in Australia is a Union of the Methodist, Congregational and Presbyterian churches formed in 1977), I am intrigued by the language of salary. In recognition that ministry is a calling and not a job, we are paid a stipend - a living wage which (in theory) saves us from having to take up tentmaking or some other activity to keep food on the table while engaging in ministry for the church. While the congregation usually pays this out of the income it generates the Uniting Church tries hard to avoid congrgations thinking that they are employers. The level of stipend and other benefits such as superannuation, travel and education/book allowances (but not health insurance - we have a good free public health system here and inducements for private insurance), is set by a synod (statewide) committee and is made with reference to cost of living increases and average salaries. There are no increases for qualifications or experience and our call system is designed to prevent congregations making an "offer you can't refuse" or headhunting. It is a base level, with congregations able to offer stipend plus a percentage, though above-stipend payments must be approved by presbytery (regional council). In Australian dollars, the amount is just under $30,000 which translates to around US$15,000! It is considered by many to be inadequate to provide for retirement (house and income) without the help of a working spouse, but with a large (Uniting Church) congregation in Australia being around 200 people, any substantial increase would curtail full time stipended ministry. It is a bind not helped by the growing gap between rich and poor and the increasing average age of our denomination (in my two congregations only 13% haven't yet retired!). Ministry is costly and finances give us a cross to bear which our congregations may not always see, but I'm exceedingly glad to be in a connectional church which at least makes sure my wife and I don't starve for our commitment to ministry.

Date: 26 Oct 2002

Contribution

Salaries is a topic which is just too fraught with difficulty to be any fun. However, let me give you a few of the many conflicting thoughts I have in the matter:

* Pastors are servants called by God, and should be willing to work in complete and absolute poverty, if need be. * Paul did "tentmaking", shouldn't pastors today do likewise? * Leaders in the church are supposed to be honored, respected, and lifted up by those within the church. Treating a pastor biblically will mean treating that pastor well... which includes a good salary given lovingly. * Like anyone else, a pastor is entitled to the wage they deserve for the quality and quantity of his/her work. * Many churches can't afford to pay pastors, and more and more are losing full-time pastors because of the increasing costs. * Because of the cost of having a full-time pastor, we are neglecting ministry to the poor... the people who should be our first priority. * It is unethical to require a pastor's family to live a poor life in order for that pastor to live out the call. * Salaries often have more to do with how much money the people in the congregation make and want to give than in the quality of the pastor's work. * Salaries make the issue of moving around in an appointment system that much more difficult. * Money spent on pastor's salaries is money not being spent on ministry in other ways. * A good salary is the most appropriate way of expressing that a good job is being done and is valued.

Date: 04 Nov 2002

Contribution

What would Jesus salary be if he was preaching,teaching,healing and ministring to the needs of others this Sunday? When the Pastors Get back to What Jesus has called for them to do I don't think setting a salary would be a question only a an offering.

Date: 05 Nov 2002

Contribution

Huh? Help me with this one: Money spent on a Pastor's salary isn't being spent on ministry in other ways? Isn't a pastor essentially the one who equips the people to do minisrty and therefore a great deal of other ministry occurs as a result? And how much was Jesus paid? Last I checked, none of the pastors I know are Jesus. ("I know Jesus, and you're no Jesus..." <:)paraphrased from a politician>) FL pastor

Date: 09 Nov 2002

Contribution

I sense some unhappiness/unholiness with the idea that pastoral compensation should be related to the income of the congregation, but my experience is that if you are to be part of the community to whom you pastor, then you should be paid commensurately with others in that community. When I served a poor inner-city church, my parishioners and I all bought our clothes at the Rummage Sale and that was cool. When I served a ritzier suburban church, I wasn't paid enough to look as they needed me to look in order to relate to me as a peer.

Date: 11 Nov 2002

Contribution

One piece being missed in this conversation is that in the secular world pay is not just based on experience, education, and responsibility. Another factor is the intangible benefits or costs related to taking the job. For example, garbarge collectors make a relatively high salary because of the "cost" of nasty smells. Some state legislative jobs have a relatively low salary because of the "benefit" of a high profile, powerful position.

In light of that, salaries for pastors will never be commensurate with other professional roles because of the incredible intangible benefits received. I love being able to fully dedicate myself to ministry, and I'm so devoted to that I am willing to sacrifice monetarily to do it. At the same time, I hold up the expectation with my board that we will follow denominational guidelines in terms of time commitment and renumeration in salary, benefits and expenses. If the church is tight on funds, I'm willing to go part-time to help out and my hours will reflect that. At the same time, I give far more than my tithe to the church and also give to anonymously and privately to other needs in the church.

As second factor is the tax benefits we receive as pastors. The exemptions given for housing allowance allow to have far more after-tax income then a secular job with a similar salary.

We live in a country dominated by market conditions. If salaries aren't high enough, qualified candidates won't be available to take the jobs.

Another problem is the assumption we have as pastors that churches should automatically be generous with us. Then we are resentful when their not. I generally assume that people are going to be tight with money and assume responsibility for bringing in denominational resources to help with that educational process. That makes these negotiations much easier.

Date: 13 Nov 2002

Contribution

Okay, this is a very interesting discussion, with many interesting viewpoints. Thank you everyone who has contributed thus far. I have to tell you, I am entering seminary next Fall, and i know i am going to take a big pay cut -not only while in school - but i accept the fact that after i finish i will not be able to make my current salary unless i can teach, write/get published and lead retreats as well as do all the ministerial duties expected of me. However, i am very certain I have been "called" to the ministry - very clearly so. I also have faith that God will indeed provide for me. Many of you "old timers" may find that a bit naive, but it is through faith that i am allowing God to lead me down this new career path, and it is through faith that i know he will provide. Sign me a future MDiv in CA

Date: 14 Nov 2002

Contribution

14 NOV 2002

In my 20+ years experience in ordained ministry as an Episcopal priest (ECUSA), debate over clergy salaries never seems to end. One of the comparisons I like to make is in the area of education. My MDiv is from a well know major private university. This university also offers medical school and law school.

My seminary degree requires the same academic preparation as a law degree (same time length, course and field work), only the subject matter is different. From that point it is an easy step to ask about the desparity between what an attorney is able to demand for services rendered; over and against the services and expectations placed upon the clergy (24/7, etc). At that point, the question becomes one of values and priorities.

In my personal situation, I serve a rural mission in one of the most impoverished regions of my state (and Diocese). My salary is the diocesan minimum, and I suppliment my income with service as an Army Reserve Chaplain. Fortunately, my wife loves her work, and views it as a ministry (she's a child psychotherapist).

Fr. George Holston, Vicar St. Alban's Church, Chiefland, FL

Date: 16 Nov 2002

Contribution

Date: 16 Nov 2002

Contribution

One of the links above ("Setting the Pastor's Salary") for a portion of the Church of the United Brethren in Christ's website is inaccurate. The correct link is http://www.ub.org/ForChurches/PRCManual/PastorSalary.shtml

Date: 20 Nov 2002

Contribution

I agree with the person who says we are not Jesus. Pastors should not be sacrificial lambs, I know I tried to be one. Our older members complain about fixed incomes. They don't know what that means. I had one increase in 5 1/2 years in my first parish and one increase in 10 1/2 years in my second parish. I knew the parishes did not have the money. The only way many pastors have of getting increases is by moving to a new parish. I am greatful to God and my present parish which insists on giving me a raise each of the 7 years I have been here. PH in OH

Date: 20 Nov 2002

Contribution

My conflicting thoughts center around knowing that my salary and benefits comprise about 1/2 the total budget of our church. It is not good stewardship and yet for this church to go part time is to write its death sentence.

On the other hand, I believe the church members could be more faithful givers. There are so many who can't seem to reconcile their belief that giving to the church is charitable giving and therefore optional with the church's very survival which they wish for.

Sally

Date: 22 Nov 2002

Contribution

I guess I don't see the point in comparing salaries of pastors to other professions. Comparing salaries in our economy is *never* fair, so I don't know why pastors' salaries should be any different. I have two cousins -- one has a B.A. in German from a state school, worked at Microsoft for a decade, and 'retired' at age 29 as a multimillionaire. His sister went to a very prestigious Ivy League school and then an even more prestigious law school and is now making peanuts defending low-income and disadvantaged folks against crooked landlords and shady employers and the like. Is that fair? It doesn't seem so to me. But in a market economy, one is generating a great deal of financial wealth and the other, while serving humanity in very real and valuable ways, isn't creating economic wealth. Since pastors fall into this second category, it's not surprising we aren't among the wealthiest.

Besides, comparing my salary as a pastor to other professions just seems to be a recipe for bitterness and envy. Since I graduated from college with a B.S. in Environmental Engineering, I pretty much kept up with my peers salary-wise. I worked for a year after college, making decent money. I worked part-time to pay my way through seminary and still earned good wages - probably similar to my old friends who are now engineers. But the minute I started at the church, my full-time salary was roughly the same as my part-time engineering salary had been! If I really thought the value of my work had been cut in half when the value of my paycheck did, I would have been a fool to have answered the call. Instead, I think the value of my work has immeasurably increased. I can compare the value of the work I'm doing now to that of my engineering peers, but comparing our salaries seems pretty pointless at this time.

Instead of mentally connecting the value of my work to the value of my paycheck, I'd much rather consider my salary in entirely different terms. The salary the pastor receives *frees* her or him to do ministry. Instead of a part-time pastor who must earn a salary on the side, a full-time pastor is freed from monetary concerns to *do* ministry for and with the church. Thinking along these lines, the church needs to pay the pastor enough to not have to worry -- about food on the table, about a medical crisis, about planning for retirement -- so that we can be in ministry.

In the same way, providing for the pastor is one among many ways the church does effective ministry. I want to be sure that my Sunday School superintendent has enough money available so she doesn't need to worry about having the resources to provide an effective children's ministry. The trustees need a certain amount of money so they need not worry about the condition of the building or property. The caring ministry needs a certain amount of money to care for the congregation and community. And so on.

Beyond the point where I don't need to worry about money issues, all additional salary is simply that -- additional. So while denominations can help ensure that the salary is sufficient to eliminate worry, I don't think they need to push the churches into providing for a middle-class lifestyle and a 2500 square foot parsonage for all pastors. Just my thoughts...

*BKW in IL

Date: 22 Nov 2002

Contribution

For me the question are 2 fold: 1.)What are the churches expectations as far as a prospective pastor's education, experience, and their expectations for the ministry of the church? You should not expect a mega ministry without a major investment of finances. Many churches want the best, but want to pay the least for it (a worldly attitude)They do not see it as an investment into their future ministry but as a check...the difference...one will come back to you and the other is lost forever.

2.) As a Pastor what will it take to provide for your household as it is commanded in the Scripture in a reasonable manner. I am not talking about being rich, but being able to pay all set bills on time, drive a decent car that doesn't break down once a month or that you have to hold off on repairs because you can not afford the new brakes this month because it snowed lastSunday and they do not pay you for snow days. You should know this going in and either not apply for anything less than that or be fair and firm from the outset. If they can not come to where you need to pray make sure that it is God's will for you to be there. If so, go. If not, wait.

The pastor's lot is 24/7 365 days a year. Even when he is one vacation, he usually is still thinking or doing something that is connected with the church. They should not be expected to live off a substandard wage, and then come time for retirement be unable to retire because they just barely made enough money to pay the daily bills, let alone put some away. How can our children afford to go to college if we do not make enough to put away for them?

My refrain is simple...be fair. While I do not campaign for my raises, I do think that every pastor needs an advocate or two within the congregation. I do not expect a church to pay more than they are able...but I have served where they could do a whole lot more and argued so much over the little bit they gave me, I turned it back in.

If they are fair with me...I am fine with what they give. If not, the Lord will open a door for me so I can take care of my family. Except for my first church, I have had no problem with that arrangement.

Date: 26 Nov 2002

Contribution

I can't help but have a beef with $100,000 + salaries. I understand that some congregations can afford this, but SHOULD they? I think of our church barely able to make the minimum salary for me and wondering if I can afford root canal next week or if I should just get the tooth pulled and do without, or what.

It's not that I resent my position. I resent some attitudes toward my position: people say "I don't have money to give to charity," and they have warm houses and their kids go to private school and such not realizing that the "charity" they refer to is my living. It makes me feel optional.

Sally

Date: 28 Nov 2002

Contribution

It's budget-setting season again and I've got a two-cents' worth thought to add to this discussion.

I serve in a parish with enormous economic disparity and injustice. We have gazillionaires who live off the sweat and blood of undocumented workers who are treated like expendable human flotsam. My congregations (two-point charge) are primarily middle-class and just barely hanging on themselves. I have two sons in college whose bills are paid as we go (sort of) since paying off my seminary education took so long. I tithe, pay for almost all of my own ministry expenses (easier than struggling with financially frightened parishioners about the importance of funding youth and outreach ministries), and try to take a lead in our community in terms of ecumenical ministries with those dehumanized by this evil economy (Habitat for Humanity, emergency housing, Vicitm's Services, even small loans to young families in the congregations, etc.).

I'm broke. That's not a brag--just reality.

I watch the televangelists with their smug, smirking faces telling the immediate world just how apostate we progressive Christians are in our attempts to practice justice in the world. And my jaw drops yet again when I read about how much money their ministries rake in each year, what kind of perks and "access" they enjoy as a "divine right", and now how much they'll all receive from a benevolent administration to further fund their administrative overhead in proselytizing ministries.

I also drive through a nearby metropolitan suburb with my mouth hanging open surrounded by megachurches that look like convention centers and do ministry like multinational corporations. Yea, Jesus! You're either one of us or you're going to hell! And we'll be happy to send you there! Rock bands spewing meaningless choruses with the theological depth of a saucer of milk (weren't rock bands the agents of Satan just a few years ago?), enough electronic equipment to edify a football stadium crowd (same opiating entertainment intent), and plush accomodations everywhere are all standard operating procedures. Since when did the sacrifice of Jesus mutate into waving one's arms around in a "sacrifice of praise" instead of the world-shaking gospel of God's righteousness and justice?

SPEW, HURL, BARF!

All this "Christian" display of economic injustice impacts our salaries, my friends. If we were really worth much monetarily, we'd be out there founding radio and television "ministries" or enjoying the perks of CEO megachurch leadership, right?

Face it. We live in a world where true sacrifice and working for justice are not only suspect--it means there's something wrong with us. In our new plutocracy, we're being taught that those who earn obscene salaries deserve them because of. . . well, just because. And if we were really worth so much (like school teachers, firefighters, social workers, etc.), then this economy would reward us and pay us a living wage, right?

We live in evil times when up is down and right is all wrong. I take heart in reading the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Plain and trying to follow in Jesus' footsteps. It may never be profitable but at least my life may count for SOMETHING besides economic injustice.

Just my two-cents' worth. To the true coming of Christ this Advent. . .

Date: 28 Nov 2002

Contribution

I am an Episcopal priest who has just tendered his resignation and asked his bishop to mediate a severance arrangement with a parish which ought to be able to afford not one but two full-time, fully compensated clergy but which can't because parishioners with $100,000+ annual incomes choose to pledge only $10 or $20 per week!

The post 9/11 economy has had a negative impact on the parish because people with a lot of "paper worth" (stock holdings etc.) feel "poorer" than they were last year even though they are earning just as much real money. Our pledging base (dollar amount) has gone down 40% even though our membership has increased! It's nuts!

Before we knew what was happening, at the beginning of the pledge drive and budgeting process, I asked the governing board (vestry) for a raise to a level commensurate with diocesan minimums as applied to a priest with my experience and that (for the first time in my ten years here) the parish provide health insurance for my family and me (I had waived that because my wife's employer provides insurance -- which we do have to some contribution for -- and I could help the parish's economy by doing so; but I can no longer afford to waive it). Unfortunately, we discovered that the income simply won't sustain full-time clergy ministry here anymore.

So I have resigned, although still on staff for next few months, and find myself in the job market.

What should I expect in terms of salary -- well, it turns out that most openings in our denomination pay just about the same as I have been making! Here I am with three degrees (actually five, but only three apply to this vocation), 12 years in ministry, and a whole lot of experience both lay and ordained, and I can only make about $45000 annually -- compared to similarly experienced similarly educated folks in lay professions (the ones sitting in our pews) who make two or three times that.

I agree with the "spew, hurl, barf" poster above. I drive past the same sort of mega-church plants offering the same sort of milk-saucer-deep, praise-music-punctuated, simple-answer religion ... that seems to be what people want. But I don't think it's what I was called to offer! So I settle for a less-than-adequate income...

Some times I get a wee bit angry with God about this!

Date: 08 Dec 2002

Contribution

The theology of the typical liberal church certainly has no more depth than the standard contemporary church. Some contemporary churches are doing a good job of making and growing disciples of Christ. Perhaps we have some jealousy at workn here.

Date: 18 Dec 2002

Contribution

I am writing you from Zambia in Africa.We are always encouraged by the abundance and generosity of the American people.I personally appreciate you all for taking care of Gods servants.

I would like to inform you that here in Africa, we do have ministers who go without any salary at all.Some of uf who are priviliged to be working on our own don't even know what a pastors' salary looks like.If you need more info on the hardships experienced by preachers of the Gospel from Africa and you would like to do some donations, please feel free to contact me by e-mail on :

royd.mwandu@kcm.co.zm pastorm2004@yahoo.co.uk Tel: 260-2-350497

Rev rOYD mWANDU

Date: 20 Jan 2003

Contribution

in these debates it is always included the amount of education. as a laypastor my education is minimal however the work is the same or possibly even more difficult. how would this be addressed? WaynO

Date: 2/22/2003

Contribution

We had an older Pastor who was not to mobile in his later years but since he was closing on retirement we retained him. We have a new man in his late 40's whose main objective is to see every new movie & cover every eating place within a hundred miles. His DirectTV keeps him so busy he can hardly make calls on the members.

His home is furnished with a $23000.00 remodeling upon arrival, his phone, electric, gas & continuing education and milage is furnished. His salary includes payment of insurance & retirement.

Since his arrival membership is steady but attendance & donations is falling. The district will not permit a salary cut but an increase is out of the question at the present.

If the Pastor is not in harmony with the members & is considered by the community as described "Where in the world did they get that character?" it wure makes a salary increase out ot the question.

Date: 9/3/2003

Contribution

I have a concern...I truly think that there is no more important job than a pastor or teacher of Gods word. OK now that that is settled, I go to a big church 7,000 including the kids. Considering the price of houses in this area and seeing the homes that most of our pastors live in. I am just concerned that we have a pastor for just about everything that you can think of and can they all make big salaries and what is too much.

Date: 11/27/2003

Contribution

It is hard to determine what a minister's salary should be, but I feel that he or she should receive the same salary as other professionals in the community. If they are paid on the same scale that other professionals, with the same amount of education and experience, then he or she should not expect all of the additions - house allowance, car expenses, travel expenses, educational expenses, utilities expenses, etc. They desire retirement and insurance, etc. Other professionals work hours set by someone else, but ministers can set their own hours. I realize that he or she cannot always follow a set schedule, but they have enough flexibility to rest and do other things if they so desire, and many of them do just that. Pay them well, but let them live off it. We do!

Date: 12/4/2003

Contribution

I am a pastor called by God to preach, teach, and minister (which means to serve)to his church. I beleive that Jesus is the head of the church. That means I have to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. I've read a few of the thougts but I haven't seen any scriptures to support the fact that pastors are provided for by God through the church. In the day of the Levitical Priests God told Israel to provide for them by how he blessed them. The were given their own suburbs by Israel on God's command. You see, a true pastor has given up his life for the sake of serving the church. God said the priests were set aside specifically for the purpose of service. It's not the church's choice to support God's servant, it's the church's responsibility who's accountable to God. I left a $50,000 job in obedience to the call of God. The church doesn't realize the sacrifice a true pastor is willing to make in obedience to God. Remember Abraham? I'm only 30 yrs old willing to serve the Lord and His people. I have a wife,a daughter, and a newborn son. Why is it such a controversy in supporting the pastor. I don't know about parishes or all the denominational talk. I guess I have something in common with Jeremiah. It's just disgusting to me of the willing ignorance of God's educated, prosperous, people when it comes to supporting God's chosen. I'll just give some biblical scriptures that's not been suggested to inform us of the church's error. Besides this is related to the Kingdom of God. That's the problem, we have too much and too many carnel minded church folk trying to discuss spiritual matters. I not gonna preach, so I'll end by suggesting scriptures given by God. His word has all the answers not man. Exodus 28:1-3, Numbers 3:1-13, Numbers 8:5-19, Numbers 35: 1-8, Deuteronomy 13:19, Matthew 10:5-10, Romans 13:1-4, I Corinthians 9:9-14, I Timothy 5:17&18, Romans 10:13-15. In blessing pastors and ministers of God (not man) you're only being obedient to His Word. God blesses obedience. I pray for the churches understanding. Pastor Harris.

Date: 5/28/2004

Contribution

Pastor's salary is to little, most of Church members are not serious with what the Church business, they except blessings from the Pastor but they do not want bless their pastor financially Blessings are two ways, A pastor must feed church with the word of God and the Church members must feed him with materials.

Date: 10/18/2004

Contribution

I have a PhD and earn $36000 a year. I don't complain. Now you guys who are called by god are complaining. That is why I don't believe in God, especially I don't believe in the God preached by you guys. Do you have homeless in your community? Have you sell your house and give your money to them and follow Jesus? You hypocrites!

Date: 11/17/2004

Contribution

I think that pastors should get pid beacause they take there time and effort to put the church together, create activities, and pay all the hired help for all their time and efection.

Date: 11/17/2004

Contribution

Hello,

This is very interesting. The only problem I have is the stats are from 2000. I am really interested in knowing what the pastor's average salary is for 2004.

Date: 11/21/2004

Contribution

Can someone tell me how much parliamentarians get paid please coz im doin an assignment

Date: 11/27/2004

Contribution

The ministry position has become a career today. In the scriptures when the disciples gave money at any time it was for the SOLE PURPOSE OF MEETING THE NEEDS OF ALL THE DISCIPLES. Today the money that is given in all churches , the majority goes to the minister. Most ministers today are living off their congragations because its looked at as a career like a doctor,lawyer,or any professional career. THE MINISTRY POSITION HAS BEEN CORRUPTED BY GREED,LUXARY,AND COMFORTABLE LIFESTYLE. INSTEAD OF A LIFE OF SACRIFICE,FAITH,AND A SHARING HEART. mike harris.jr

Date: 11/27/2004

Contribution

The ministry position has become a career today. In the scriptures when the disciples gave money at any time it was for the SOLE PURPOSE OF MEETING THE NEEDS OF ALL THE DISCIPLES. Today the money that is given in all churches , the majority goes to the minister. Most ministers today are living off their congragations because its looked at as a career like a doctor,lawyer,or any professional career. THE MINISTRY POSITION HAS BEEN CORRUPTED BY GREED,LUXARY,AND COMFORTABLE LIFESTYLE. INSTEAD OF A LIFE OF SACRIFICE,FAITH,AND A SHARING HEART. mike harris.jr

Date: 12/2/2004

Contribution

I haven't seen any posts from clergy spouses-so I'll add my two cents (I guess I can afford it). My husband has been in the ministry for almost a dozen years and he makes about 2,600.00 per month. He serves a church that includes many wealthy professionals; doctors lawyers, management, etc. many of whom easily make six figure salaries. I think it is this diparity that is frankly making me very bitter. We have two elementary school-aged boys, but even when they were very young, I could not afford to stay home full-time to care for them. I now work full-time, and we are doing a little better financially, but I do not feel that the Ministry is at all friendly to families, and an unfotunate casualty of this has been the erosion of my own faith and relationship with God. I would like to move, but to where? Where would things be better?

Date: 12/18/2004

Contribution

PASTORS SHOULD NOT BE PAID UNDER SIX FIGURES. THESE MEN AND WOMEN HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO SPEAK FOR GOD AND MUST PUT UP WITH A GOOD BIT OF ANXIETY AND UPSET AMONG PEOPLE. IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT JOB AND $30-$40 THOUSAND A YEAR IS NOT A SALARY. IT IS JUST A TIP.

Date: 12/27/2004

Contribution

dear brother my name is sampath (sam). Iam a pastor in a small tribal area. I need to go too far from the city nearly 45 kms. I don't have enough money to go weekly 4 times to the village. And the salaries is not sufficient please send me salary to me.

Please reply me with out.

Thank you in the Jesus name.

This is my Home address: SAMPATH KUMAR HNO:11-1-326 SRT LABOUR COLONY WARANGAL (AP) INDIA 506013

Date: 1/11/2005

Contribution

It is ridiculous and hypocritical what pastors get paid in most Canadian churches. Plain and simple, they are underpaid given their level of education, complexity of the job, hours worked and the cost of living. Yet churches justify this by saying Pastors are servants of God. Well, what are they supposed to live on? The last thing a pastor should have to worry about is money. At least pay them fairly, according to what a similar secular job would be. If you want your pastors to be fruitful, happy and stay for a long time, you need to put your money where your mouth is. To retain the best talent, you gotta pay fairly, if not more. You wonder why many young, talented people don't see the ministry as realistic job. They see how their pastors are overworked, underpaid and barely getting by and then have to put up with all the criticism from church members. Meanwhile, the church board members drive nice cars, have fat salaries and big homes but ruthlessly debate a 2% cost of living increase for the poor pastor, then you wonder why God-loving Christians aren't earger to get into the ministry.

Date: 1/16/2005

Contribution

Well, firstly, it would be nice to get the above kind of numerical salary data for a broader perspective; like, comparing between different denominations, Roman Catholic, Anglican, Presbytarian, United Church of Christ, Episcopalian, Evangelical, etc.; perhaps not all of them, but at least the main ones, along with the one this article's figures are for. It would also be interesting to also see such comparisons between Canada and the USA, for all of North America.

As far as I'm aware and regarding Roman Catholic parrish priests in Canada, or at least the province of Quebec, and this information as of around twenty years ago, well, parrish priests, the head one, received something like $16,000 per year, while the vicar, aid, who also lived -- often anyway -- in the same presbytary, received around $12,000 per year. This was not good, but their lodging was provided, they often had nuns who took care of cooking, cleaning of the presbytary, perhaps the grocery shopping and possibly some other matters; and the utilities were paid for by the parrish, not by these priests.

So the latter certainly helped to offset the low salary compensation, and I don't recall it varying based on the sizes of parrishes; believing that what was possibly done in order to help out small parrishes, to ensure same salaries for their priests, well, the diocese then kicked in the difference.

$12,000 per year certainly was in the category of low, but given that RC priests have been forbidden to marry and thus from having families, well, this also helped with regards to the low compensation; leaving that it was then sufficient for a priest to be able to purchase an automobile -- and old-used but sound is good enough -- go on vacations -- not luxurious ones, but Christian clergy also should avoid seeking luxurious standards of living anyway, should always seek to live modestly -- and etc. It was not much, but sufficient nevertheless; particularly when their retirements were also covered; and although it not always great to live in some of their group retirement homes, from what I heard a few times some years back, well, they nevertheless had more than many of the rest of us in society did.

Today, however, their salaries have since risen, but I don't know what they presently get.

Yet, parrishioners also are the ones to pay for the upkeep of church buildings, the heating, etc.. Everything to do with these facilities and which incurs financial costs is paid for with the donations of parrishioners; not out of the priests' incomes.

I thought to have read sometime last fall that the RC priests were now getting around $30,000, but after a few hours of checking for the information on the Web, I have not come across any article, yet, in which these figures are provided; that is, not for RCs, which are the figures that I'm more precisely looking for, today; although appreciate learning about those of other denominations, too.

And one reason, among others, that that inforamtion is being sought is due to my mother having returned from Mass last night, when she told me that the priest had said that they are having difficulty in getting decent salaries, and something about paying off hydro-electric utility bills; the latter, either for the church building itself, or for the presbytary, or maybe for both. I don't know how high they heat their facilities, but one place or way to start is by lowering the temperature, to heat less while nevertheless adequately, and to then wear a sweater; after all, it's winter and when these get COLD, then heating costs go up, so keeping our thermometers down, more, is one way to certainly help reduce heating costs.

But some of these churches are also HUGE and are mostly empty space; VAST amounts of empty space that'll always be empty, never occupied, never used for anything at all, all of this space needing to be heated; given that there's no way to heat the air below while not that above, not unless there's an insulation barrier, which far few of these churches, if any of them, have.

Some sound common sense, practical sense can help to reduce expenses.

And if they are getting $30,000 per year, in addition to having their lodging and retirements covered for, plus other benefits, then this is quite good, in my opinion. Even if it does work out to be less than what teachers make, the latter normally put in a considerable greater number of hours of work every week. And two teachers, one who works say twenty hours per week versus the other who works forty, plus more also more at home than the former teacher, well, they are both teachers, but they are not going to get the same compensations; the first will likely get half what the latter does, and maybe even less. And no one else pays for their lodging, etc.; teachers needing to pay for these things out of their own incomes.

For a complete analysis, it would be necessary to know how many hours per week each priest works; after all, while some really work more than the others, well, it's very possible that the latter will also be paid less, even significantly less. That certainly would be unfair, but many or most clergy would not really care, if they're the ones getting more while working less.

Human character, nature; it is also part of the nature of all humans, including priests and other religious clergy.

As for what Christ would have wanted to be paid, well, we don't know the answer, entirely, but we have some indications.

From something I recently read, He said not to accept money in exchange for performing miracles.

Well, that's the case of performing miracles. What about all of the other ministry work the apostles did?

I don't know, but Christ apparently was not against and was even favourable regarding tithes.

As for Himself, did He receive any salary or tithes? I think He got neither, and the tithes were to go to the Jewish rabbis.

Christ was a carpenter. Did He do more carpentry work after He began His last three-year stretch? I don't know; never saw anything about this in the Bible; only knowing that He was at least previously a carpenter. Maybe He had saved up enough of His income from that work, to hold Him over throughout the last three-year stretch.

One thing which seems to be rather certain for me, however, is that He would not be favourable regarding priests and ministers working in His name seeking major financial compensation. He'd say, if you receive that much, then you best be sure to share it with the poor; either that, to cease saying that you are working in My Name.

A rich priest to me is not a priest, won't be treated any better than any other rich person who does not adequately share and thus care, and won't get any respect from with in terms of his/her priesthood.

Priests are above the law, often allowed to be treated with impunity; unlike Christ, who not only was treated with punity, but while also being innocent, and The Christ.

Salaries should obviously be higher in other denominations than the RC one, given that ministers or priests of these others can marry and have families; it does cost more for living when we have dependents; I know, being single I know that the costs are certainly less for me than for someone who has a family. Yet, I'm also aware that while I was able to get work in my professional field, IT/IS, even if I was rather wickedly low-balled, compared to "fair market wages", which the state laws used to determine whether an individual should or must be retroactively compensated, but while I could not afford to sue, well, even while I was severely low-balled and had rather no benefits, given that most of my work was on contract bases, and when it was as a salaried employee the benefits were very meagre or maigre for this industry, well, even with all that, there nevertheless were [families] living on less, with some of them getting by and not complaining.

So what if they did not have education higher than highschool; that does not mean that they were not intelligent and hard working people, etc. And for Christians, families, whether highly educated or not, should be of higher value than having high scholarship. Half or more highly scholared people don't have much common sense anyway, and they are the main reason this world has been as gravely destroyed, polluted, pillaged, etc., as is the real case, reality. They receive awfully high incomes for the outcomes of their work.

Actually many factors can be rather justly considered in this kind of context, in order to try to develop a sound, authentic Christian outlook.

And priests and/or ministers who have ample time on their hands can get part-time jobs, or write and sell books. I read about one priest in NYC last fall and he works I believe to recall full-time as a taxi driver, in order to be able to make a living, or to up his income enough to be able to live. I knew, personally, a priest a little over twenty years ago and who had a part-time freelance business selling watches and jewelry, and he used at least some of the profits from that work in order to help charities.

Having families while being priests or ministers certainly does need to be include in these calculations, though; people should not expect others with families to live on a single-person income.

Priests and/or ministers who do their work in wealthy parishes and don't receive reasonable compensation, well, there's one alternative way to think about this kind of situation: It is not really a seriously Christian parish to begin with and, so, why bother staying. If the people are that greedy, then write them off as "golden cow" worshippers and move on.

Christ did not particularly try to be friends with aristocracy; mostly having stayed away from them. And He at least purportedly did say that it will be the poor, oppressed, marginalised, etc., who will inherit the earth, while the others will be dealt with in other ways.

I don't think we poor -- have become that since Clinton et al. drove many of us in the IT/IS industry into bankruptcy, while myself was beyond that, even redder, being unable to afford to file and thus to gain the benefits of formal filing -- want to inherit this earth, anymore; the place is destroyed, widespreadly-toxically polluted, etc. Well, if God also cleans this place up and undoes much of the destruction, then inheriting this earth will be appealing; if it's really ever going to be an option. After all, so much of the Bible is so questionable in terms of origins that we don't really know with certainty what is and what is not really true in the Bible; much of the O.T. seeming to be adoptions from previously existing religions, and some aspects of Christ being very much like Kryshna; among other matters of discrepancy or questionability. We can certainly believe in God; after all, as Thomas of Aquinas said regarding the proof of God, "it is self-evident". That much we can rather know with certainty, but the remainder requires or at least seriously merits further, more careful scrutiny. Based on some materials that I've read over the past year, the new part of the Bible was considerably changed, including watered down, within the first few centuries; and there certainly are different version of the Bible, some with very significantly contrasting differences, while others are to a lesser degree.

The RC Church also persists in stubbornly refusing to allow researchers, religious and secular, both, to enter the secret vaults, where many secretly held documents or materials are kept, hidden. That's not done because these materials are benign in nature; it has to be due to them presenting conflictually contrasting and possibly incriminating knowledge or documents anyway.

Was Christ really a rebel, one who applied force or was willing to if necessary? I don't know, was always taught that the answer was NO, however at least some Jewish documents, historical, depict Christ as a rebel and one willing to apply force; and that might explain why He and His apostles, or at least the apostles, bore swords. I believe its Gnostics who describe them carrying swords, but not for the purpose of actually using them; only to seem more like everyone else, to be more easily hidden in crowds, for many people regularly carried swords in those times; purportedly anyway.

Some also say that through historical documents, it's been determined that Christ was not, likely not anyway a Jew; that He was Essene. If this is true, then it might have a serious impact on what we've been taught about His relationship to Jews; and it could be a reason why there's so little mention of Christ in historical Jewish documents.

There are so many really unanswered questions, and so much belief based on agnosticism, not knowing, well, not seeking to know, gno, can certainly leave us very vulnerable; leaving us much more easily capable of believing falsehoods.

Hey, this has all evolved to the point that we can imagine creating a new tv show, "Will the Real Jesus Christ, Lord, please stand up and let us all know; please!".

Hence, I guess the wage, compensation issue is certainly one, for the priests and ministers who do Good work and who are too little compensated; however, we also have a mess of bigger issues within Christianity.

And the reference to what Gandhi said regarding Christianity after he had learned about it and thought that Christ was indeed The Christ, well, although he believe in Christ, then, he could not perceive himself being baptised in any of the known churches or denominations, perceiving too much hypocrisy in all of them; while some are worse, and possibly RC the very worse, they all nonetheless have their ... blips let's say. The last thing we need is anything more than an occasional hypocrisy, but we have far too much; it's exceeded the damn's withholding capacity and is flooding societies.

Between $22,000 and $8x,000 per year, though, that is quite a stunning difference.

Date: 2/13/2005

Contribution

Right now our church is in a severe financial crunch. This is due to spending habits and poor use of assets which have continued for many years. We have at present a projected budget which leaves us $8500 deficit at year end which means the church will not make it through the year. Upon examination of the budget it was discovered that the pastor's salary is 80% of the entire budget. The church has only 7 families and it seems the only way to keep it afloat is to cut the pastor's salary for now until we get some other source of income. This is a very touchy issue but there doesn't seem to be much else to do right now.

Date: 3/5/2005

Contribution

what about reimbursements?

Date: 3/28/2005

Contribution

Aloha, I am one of the founders of Maui Marketplace Ministries (MMM) that has been very successful on Maui to get Christian business leaders to work together on projects. My partner and I who founded MMM have an internet company and he also owns a resort that I help him with that is run as a tent making ministry. We have many missionaries that stay with us at the resort and from those times we notice how many mention they had no doctors, drug stores or hospitals in their area but they used plants to heal, for food and shelter. It was also interesting that many parts of the world have an abundance of a plant that is being used to help hurting people and in other parts of the world and they do not know about it. I decided after hearing from so many to do something about this and was surprised at all the interest from scientist and government granting organizations like National Science Foundation. We are currently building a web site that will have information to use for no charge ever. We will never asked a dime from any mission organization and everything we create will be free to use by all. What I do need now is about 40-60 missionaries to answer a short questionaire that we need for our web site. If you know of anyone that could do this, they can read of our project and fill out the on-line questionaire below. This program will benefit in 4 areas, food, medicine and shelter but I think one of the great things that this tool can be used for is opening doors to talk with local people and let God used that opportunity to share the gospel. Mahalo and God Bless, Paul Hansen Jer 9: 23 and 24 Links to web site: http://www.churchofmaui.com/home.asp (Maui Marketplace Ministries web site and project is the Alliance with Scientist and Missionaries - scroll down to click and enter) http://www.churchofmaui.com/questions.asp

Date: 3/31/2005

Contribution

whatever God wants you should pray about it before any money is assent.

Date: 3/31/2005

Contribution

a SC16 year old sent that last one

Date: 6/2/2005

Contribution

The work of ministry that pastors do can never be rewarded in monetary terms. They are represenatives of God and hence God alone can reward them. However I feel that pastors' salaries should depend on the state of the congregation. A larger ministry with more income can pay its pastor well to cover his/her needs. However for those small ministries still starting, there is need for the pastor to sacrifice early in ministry and prioritise the growth of the church rather than consuming the bulk of the church income. As the church grows and begins to take shape salaries can be reviewed relatively. Tonderai Mupamhanga

Date: 6/25/2005

Contribution

Date: 3/28/2005

Contribution