Date: 2/17/2003
Time: 8:20:32 AM
Too bad no one evesdropped! I would love to know what the three talked about. The past the future?
The "He" in verse 6 is a bit unclear. Peter didn't know what to say or Jesus?
Lanuage experts. Is terrified in 6 really translated that way all the time?
V.8 "they saw no one with them any more, but only Jesus..." The prophets of the past disappear. any significance here?
Early thoughts. Nancy-Wi
Date: 2/19/2003
Time: 5:54:14 AM
Nancy in WI -- according to Luke's version of this story, the conversation was about Jesus' "departure" (in Greek "exodus")"which he was to accomplish in Jerusalem." In other words, they were discussing his upcoming suffering and death, and thus also symbolizing that Jesus' predictions, made shortly before, were in accordance with the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah). And who would know better about an exodus than Moses? -- Mike in Maryland
Date: 2/22/2003
Time: 11:43:37 AM
It is always tempting to use the other gospels to fill out what the first gospel writer - Mark - doesn't tell us. But I think Mark tells us what Mark feels is important for us to know and has a perspective that can stand alone. It appears that Mark doesn't feel it is important for us to know what Jesus, Moses and Elijah talked about; and it isn't important for Jesus to respond or explain anything to the terrified disciples who are (at least Peter is) rambling on about building dwellings on top of the mountain; and Mark's Jesus doesn't want them to talk about it later either. What appears to be important to Mark is what God does and says. God transfigures Jesus and places him in the mysterious and miraculous presence of Elijah and Moses and then declares Jesus the Beloved Son and challenges the disciples ot listen to him. I think I might like to explore this story as reminder that there are holy/transfiguring/transforming moments in the midst of our human existence when God acts, speaks and even directs our lives but our full participation in these holy moments requires that we listen beyond the words and make ourselves present to the moment despite our fears over what we are experiencing that we don't understand. This holy moment isn't about words or thinking - it is about listening and experiencing the transfiguring power of God at work in Jesus...and, perhaps, us? I suspect that we are surrounded by holy/transfiguring moments but we are too busy talking, analyzing, organizing and staying "in control" to notice that God is acting, speaking and guiding. Well ... its a beginning anyway! Patty
Date: 2/22/2003
Time: 8:56:09 PM
Jesus led them up the mountain. So he must have wanted them their. To see what they saw so they could tell what they saw after he has risen from the dead. Because his very proud father told them to do what his beloved son said for them to do. lol. Pastor Roger WV
Date: 2/23/2003
Time: 11:22:29 AM
Early thoughts - I have preached about our personal moments on the mountain - those mountaintop experiences. So I was thinking (you can hear the gears grinding), We have Moses, a symbol of the law, Elijah, a symbol of the prophets and Jesus, a symbol of God's grace. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. He is also the fulfillment of the prophecy. At the end, only Jesus is left - grace. We are dependent on God's grace in the final analysis. What do you think? And as always, "What does this story mean to the person in the pew?" PH in OH
Date: 2/23/2003
Time: 3:41:14 PM
It is not very often that we have the opportunity to experience two theophanies in one day: the Ascension of Elijah and the Transfiguration of our Lord.
You mean to tell me you are going to break the communion with God by openning your mouths and preaching on something that is beyond our understanding instead of standing in awe!
tom in ga
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 4:56:33 AM
Were I preaching this week ...
I would focus, as I have done before, on the Father's command, "Listen to him" (v. 7) noting the wonderful tie in with the Psalm:
The mighty one, God the Lord, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting. // Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God shines forth. // Our God comes and does not keep silence...
Blessings, Eric in KS (now non-parochial)
PS -- Everything went well on 2/23. Thanks for all your prayers and kind thoughts.
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 5:11:45 AM
I posted the following on the epistle discussion where "Creature Wayne" wondered about a communion tie for the lessons:
Wayne: I think you could relate the Gospel lesson to Communion in this way -- in the Transfiguration Jesus is seen as completely pure and clean -- his clothing is whiter than any bleach could make it, which symbolizes this. In the Anglican "prayer of humble access" there is lovely poetic language about Communion being our way to share in that cleanliness and purity. The prayer includes these words: "Grant us ..., gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of they dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his most body and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us." (The latter part of the petition could also be used to comment on how the building of dwellings [tabernacles] for Jesus is not to be done on the mountaintop as Peter wants to do, but in our lives.)
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 5:12:58 AM
oops ... that should be "his body" (strike "most" out of there)
Eric
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 5:15:07 AM
I am struck by Barbara Brown Taylor's title for her sermon posted in the members area "Thin Places". I am thinking that I will preach about the times that we can palpaply feel the presence of the Divine, places where we meet God - like on the mountaintop or when Elijah is taken away on the chariot, and we move from that experience with such a sense of awe that often words fail. And yet we are never the same afterwards. Does anyone have any examples of stories that are like that? Heather in ON
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 7:43:41 AM
Early Monday thoughts... I was struck by Peter's loss for words. Yet, true to form, he speaks anyway. But it is NOT a time for speaking. In fact, the "voice" commands that all present LISTEN to Him. Added to this is the command of Jesus to "tell no one" yet.
Perhaps disciples have been obeying the commands to not speak all too well. We have indeed witnessed marvelous transformations in people's lives, to include our own. And Christ is the one who is transforming us through His death and resurrection. ARMY CH E
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 8:40:46 AM
Just an imaginative thought. I hope you will not mind me taking liberty with Mark's gospel by imagining what the conversation could have been. Joyce in Jerusalem
Elijah: Look at these stubborn and fearful people. How do you get these children to honor God?
Moses: And how do you teach them to love each other? God knows I tried. I brought God’s law down from the mountain top. It is very clear. The simple commandments tell them how to love and honor God and how to live together in mutual love and respect.
But right after I told them how to live, they began complaining about God and began to worship false idols.
The law told them not to betray or disrespect others. Yet, the powerful continued to grasp for more wealth and power. Foolish people they thought that would give them security. But for these things they have to oppress the weak. Then the fighting starts. It can lead to killing.
Elijah: Well, I warned them. I told King Ahab and the people not to worship false idols. I challenged 450 prophets of Baal and they died on the mountain top.
But today, people still worship the idols they create: power, material possessions, and the comfort they bring. But they do not receive satisfaction from them. NO!
How do we teach people to find the real thing -- joy in relationships with God and with each other?
Jesus: God sent you Moses to give the law, and God sent you Elijah and other prophets to warn the people of how they are harming themselves.
Now God has sent ME.. I will live among these rebellious people for awhile. I will love them and I will die for them. These men you see before you, and those who follow them, will carry on my work of reconciliation to God and humankind.
Moses: These men? Look, they are dumbstruck. They are frail. They are confused.
Elijah: Good joke, Jesus. Now… tell us your real plan.
Jesus: I have no other plan.
Elijah: But how will they find the wisdom and the strength?
Jesus: Ahhh… I will be with them.
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 10:06:19 AM
Two thoughts, one with a question. One: I recall a scene in the movie "Crimson Tide" where Gene Hackman congradulates his new executive officer of his sub, played by Denzel Washington, for knowing not to talk in the last minutes before the sub submerges under the ocean. The scene and the sounds were of beauty, it was a moment meant for silence. Two: In Mark's baptism scene, only Jesus notices the heavens open and only hear hears God say "you are my beloved." Then at the transfiguration others hear the same thing. The slow development of who Jesus is and his authority. I think this is significant, but don't know what next. Kyle in Texas
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 11:12:27 AM
Just a though early in the week: Mark may have known Peter, James and John, but how did he know Elijah and Moses were there? Did they wear "Hello, my name is..." badges? Did Jesus introduce them? This raises the question; What did they see, and how did they know what they saw? It seems as though theophanies must have another dimension beside visual. Perhaps a touch of the mystical is present here. Or could it be a simple as there were some graphic images of Elijah and Moses? A W-G rocky coast Me.
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 11:13:19 AM
Years ago my nephew (now a senior at seminary) was leaving sunday school with a picture of this event. His mother (who knew she had the smartest boy in the world) was trying to show off with him. "Who is in the Picture there?" "Jesus." "But who is with Jesus?" Silence "Who is with Jesus?" Silence. "Who is with Jesus, I know you know!" (forcing the issue a bit) Finally the answer, blurted out, "Bert and Ernie!" A little off subject, but funny. I always like to reference the voice quoting Psalm 2 a "coronation" psalm. Divine stamp of approval (even if the dialogue between Moses and Elijah, find the plan on the crazy side.) God revealed God's plan first to Jesus (at baptism) now to the most important disciples (transfiguration), and finally to the whole crowd (crucifixion) when the army officer says, Truly this was the Son of God! Former Army Chaplain Pbob in SC
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 7:14:32 PM
Heather in ON:
You asked for experiences where we felt the presence of God and were forever changed. The first one that came to mind was during a moment of worship when I was singing background vocals on a song called "Sweet Mercies." At some point during the song I was taken away in worship to the point that when the song ended my sense of worship continued. It was like I was in a different place.
The other experience is quite different.
I came to Christ at 29 (now nearly 47) and, as sometimes happens with new Christians, I was confused about the meaning of a particular Scripture: Mark 3:29. Somehow the Enemy got into my head and, bringing up my past substance abuse, said, "How do you know that you didn't commit such a sin when you were blind drunk, or doing LSD?" I can even remember the intersection I was at while struggling with that question late at night on the way home from work. I literally cried out to God, "Lord, I can not believe you would bring me this far only to drop me!"
The way home took me past my home church and I saw the Easter cross standing erect in a side yard of the church. You know the type: A wooden cross that you put spring flowers on for sunrise service. I whipped my Camaro into the lot, went over to the cross and fell to my knees, tearfully praying, "Lord, I don't know if there is such a sin, but if there is and I did this thing, I can only trust that you forgive me." At that moment, I felt such an incredible peace and assurance. I know now that I was feeling the presence of the Holy Spirit in a mighty way. It was as if the entire weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders. I rose from that place, wiped the tears from my eyes, and went Home.
Blessings, PastorBuzz in TN
Date: 2/24/2003
Time: 8:29:56 PM
I like Mark's quick event upon the mountain. The important part is what God says, "Listen to him!" So what should the listen for? On either side of this mountaintop experience, Jesus speaks of his death and resurrection, and both times the disciples don't want to listen or don't understand.
It is true for the disciples and true for us, that we long for mountaintop experiences where we know Jesus fully. Yet Jesus is saying that it is not there where Jesus is fully known, it is in his suffering, his death, and his resurrection. Listen to him! Jesus doesn't live on the mountain, his glory is in the valley of the shadow of death, and there he has the victory.
RB in Canada
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 6:56:28 AM
RB in Canada, I think that Jesus' glory and grace live both on the mountain and in the vallies. In the rolling hills and in the desert plains. Mountain top experiences are things that show us the gifts of God that fill our hearts with such excitement and joy. The vally experiences show us the God with us side in our pain and struggles.
Mountain top experiences: I am reminded of a line from Eddie Murphy in one of his comedy bits... a fictious wife turns to Eddie after years of marriage (or something like that) and says Eddie... what have you done for me lately. As humans no matter how monumentous the event, there seems to come a time where we need at least a refresher course on the mountain. What a great time to think about things like remember your baptism services and renewing your vows services. I know a lot of people who after ten or twenty five or fifty years renew their wedding vows. Not becasue they have forgotten but rather , it is time to relight that mountain top experience of the past. Kyle in TX
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 9:16:39 AM
Joyce in Jerusalem: Thank you for your "liberties" if you will on what may have transpired between Jesus, Elijah and Moses on that mountaintop. I am going to be presenting the Lord's Prayer with responses this Sunday and wondered how to work into it. I think your contribution leads me to it beautifully. Would you allow me to use your words? You can email me at bsbement@stny.rr.com
Thank you all for our insights. This site brings me much information, and I appreciate you all. Blessings, Betty in NY
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 9:29:20 AM
RB in Canada, I think you are right on the mark. We can talk about mountaintop experiences if we want to but that isn't what Mark is pushing here. The One the disciples - and we too - are to listen to is the One who talks about suffering, and crucifixion. It's the perfect lead-in for the season of Lent.
RG also in Canada
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 9:47:58 AM
I would agree with the both of you that for that moment, the work was to be done in the vally, but Jesus would not have wanted them to talk about it at all, maybe not even have given them the oppertunity to be there if he had not wanted that to a part of his and therefore God's full revelation in due time. The point of Mountain top experiences are not to dismiss them but to use them as another means for God's previenent grace to woo us into a full relationship with the Holy. Kyle in TX
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 10:38:33 AM
PH in OH -
I once preached a sermon using the translation that says "booths," although I can't find it since I heard it used in a reading years ago. I pictured what Lucy sets up in the Charlie Brown comics, "Psychological Advice 5 cents, the doctor is in." And recounted how in my childlike way, I pictured these kinds of booths. Like lemonade stands. Moses offered legal advice for a few denarii and Elijah offered (I think) spiritual advice for 5 denarii. Then, I pondered what Jesus' booth would look like.
It's this that offered me the springboard to explore the transfiguration and the impact it had on Peter and James - and us. Of course, at the end, Jesus' booth said, "grace - free." I guess nowadays you could say "priceless" in imitation of the popular commercial.
For what it's worth; you seem to be headed where I headed several years ago.
Sally
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 10:39:31 AM
tom in ga - I hear ya! I guess there's a little Peter in every Preacher.
Sally
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 10:53:28 AM
I joked to my congregation the week before last, when Jesus ordered them not to tell anyone, "if that's what it takes to get the word out, then, PLEASE! Don't tell anyone!" Here we have the next little snippet, (v. 9) ... until after the Son of Man had risen from the dead."
Thanks for your suggestions, Eric, and glad you're still with us! :-)
I'm going to go with the idea that any new "dwelling" to be made is for Christ in our heart. This is not a sappy, sentimental thing, but a Sacramental act. In agreeing to receive the body and blood, we agree to accept all that this means.
Sally
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 10:55:05 AM
Eric - gee, that made it sound like you were dying, didn't it? I MEAN, I'm glad you're still visiting us at the DPS.
I'm a little bummed out today, so I guess I'm getting a little slappy in response. Time to take the afternoon off.
Sally, down and out in GA
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 2:22:49 PM
Sally, the translation that refers to the dwellings as "booths" is the Revised Standard Version. blessings, mikeinh
Date: 2/25/2003
Time: 6:56:20 PM
This being the last Sunday of Epiphany, I will be attempting to celebrate Shrovetide with a joyous worship and burying the "Alleluia" during worship. It will be like a Shrove Tuesday event on Sunday.
The tie in to the transfiguration can be the transformation before our eyes. Embracing the past and the gift that brings to the present as it informs our future. The experience that Peter, James and John shared must have provided a turning point for their spiritual journeys. In the same way the shift in focus from Epiphany to Lent has the power to transform us. The visual manifestation of Christ in our world is mirrored in the transfiguration of Jesus and the vision of Elijah and Moses (gifts from the Hebrew tradition upon which we stand in awe.) A W-G rocky coast Me.
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 4:07:40 AM
Dear A W-G rocky coast Me,
How about telling us some more about this Shrovetide. I have never heard of this before.
Mike in NC
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 7:25:38 AM
Hi all! I am new to this site and just wanted to throw out something that I have been thinking about regarding this gospel passage-it's the 'why moses and elijah' question. In the 2 Kings reading for this Sunday, Elisha asks to inherit a double share of Elijah's spirit and this was granted. In Numbers 11:17, the Lord took some of Moses spirit and put it on others. Is there a connection here between the spreading of "spirit" and the gift of (spreading) the Holy Spirit when Jesus dies?? I'm not sure where to go with this, if anywhere.
Sherry
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 7:34:05 AM
I am struck by how the disciples wanted to hold onto the vision they had observed. The vision of the transfigured Christ was something they recognized as important -- important enough to keep in their memory with special monuments. Don't we often do the same thing? When something si so special to us that we don't want to forget, we build a monument - whether to persons, places, or events. But this was an event that could not be "memorialized" in the normal way.
In one of my churches we will be dedicating a piece of Communion ware in memory of a saint of the congregation. I want to speak about how best to remember -- hold on to -- the vision of the Church as Christ wants us to be, as well as the vision of those who have dreamed the local Church into being because of their vision of Christ. How can the Church be transfigured or transformed from an inward turned body into an outpost of mission?
Early ramblings (for me).
StudentPastor in KS
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 8:25:32 AM
A few years ago I read an Orthodox theologian's take on this text (Vladamir Losskey I think) It was truly inspirational. He argued that the transfiguration was not the transfiguration of Jesus. He was just appearing to the disciples as He truly is. Rather it is the disciples who are transfigured or transformed by this extraordinary experience. They are brought face to face with reality for the first time. Terry C
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 9:25:22 AM
Jesus is transfigured (Gk. metamorphose) before the disciples as a glimpse of God's glory, maybe to tie them over to Easter because of the awful things they'll see before then.
This happens after Peter has made his confession "You are the Messiah" (Mk 8.29), and after Jesus has foretold his death and resurrection and Peter rebuked him for it. Now the voice from the cloud confirms Peter's confession "This is my Son, the Beloved" and responds to Peter's rebuke and unwillingness to see Jesus' death and resurrection with "listen to him!" The first thing that Jesus says to them after this command from heaven is not to tell about what has happened until after the resurrection. The message that they have to get straight is that the Son of Man must suffer.
One commentary I've read talks about listening to Christ:
"We listen to so many voices today, all of which seem wise and attractive -- pundits, columnists, commentators, political analysts, religious gurus, celebrities, tempters, seducers. They promise us health, wealth, and happiness, but seldom live up to their promises and often lead us toward ruin. Is there any trustworthy voice amidst the cacophony? The voice from the cloud says that we can always trust Jesus -- "Listen to him!" We say, "But Jesus is too idealistic to understand the bare-knuckles world in which I live!" The voice says, "Listen to him!" We say, "Later, perhaps, but I have other things to do right now!" The voice says, "Listen to him!" We say, "But I am not sure that I truly believe." The voice says, "Listen to him!" How many broken hearts and broken lives could be avoided if we would just listen to him? There are many people who regret not listening to Jesus. Do you know one who is sorry for having listened?
First thoughts on a Wednesday. (IT'S WEDNESDAY ALREADY?)
Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 9:49:55 AM
Last year, I completed most of a CPE residency at a Level 1 Trauma center. The hospital was located on a hill and could be seen for miles. Two of my service lines were located on the seventh floor,the top floor, of that hospital. And it was there, way up there, that I met a good number of folks in a valley. Most were passing through that valley. But once in a while, there was the occasional person who had decided to "camp out" in their valley. Of course, my job was to get them to remember and name their "mountain top" experiences. And my favorite question was this: My gosh! In the midst of all of that, how have you been able to hang onto hope? Mountains and valleys. Both are there in our lives. And the difference between the two sometimes is not so much distance as it is perspective. From the mountian top, we can look at the valley and see/celebrate how far we have come. From the valley, we can see/remember times, experiences, relationships that can offer us the hope we need to make it through the vallley.
On another note entirely, Mark is my favorite gospel. One of the reasons is that I enjoy poking fun at those clueless disciples. Except this time I read the text, I saw myself. Not as Peter, the one who deals with his anxiety in any given situation by opening his mouth long before he thinks. No. Not Peter. This time I find myself identifying with James and John, the silent ones. I wonder if that is how they are dealing with their own anxiety...after all, Jesus has just been revealed to them in glory. I wonder if they are silent because they are in awe and are speechless or if they are totally overwhelmed by what they just saw and are "stuffing it all" (for lack of a better term) and "distancing" (again for lack of a better term)themselves from what must be an emotional and spiritual overload.
That occurs to me because I experienced something like that in a recent on-call at a different hospital from the one I mentioned earlier. A 49 year old gentleman was in End Stage colon cancer. He had two teenage children. I spoke with them about the possibility of inking their father's hand for a handprint either before or after his death so that they would have a keepsake of his "prints" in their lives. The children asked their aunts, the patient's sisters, to do the prints. I walked into the patient's encosed ICU room (booth-like in nature) to find his sisters lovingly going about their task, explaining to their dying brother what they were doing. The image of Mary anointing the body of Jesus before his burial immediately came to mind as I watched these Marys at work. Awe struck and in silence, I backed out of the room to watch the process. I was overwhelmed - emotionally and spiritually - by what I had witnessed. It was just hours later that the patient died. And now I break my silence, as I share the story with you. Karen in TX
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 10:01:04 AM
To Nancy in Wi,
I think the significance in the prophets disappearing and the disciples only seeing Jesus, is Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. It is by Grace that we are saved. When Grace touches us, we can't see anyone or anthing else but Jesus. Susan in Wa
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 10:23:55 AM
A couple of thoughts on this reading...
To "Tom in Ontario"--I appreciate the focus on the voice from on high saying, "Listen to him." It could be interesting to play with the two imperatives here, "Listen" and "tell nothing"--how they relate, their significance, etc. (I would suggest that the first is still in force, but the second has changed--see below for more on this.)
The commentary quote (from "Tom in Ontario") connects with what is perhaps the BIGGEST ISSUE of all in this text, and that is the appearance of Moses (known as the Lawgiver) and Elijah (icon of the prophetic tradition) with Jesus. Notice that the text says, once the "shekinah" had disappeared, "they saw only Jesus." What an amazing thought! For those disciples, even though they still had much to learn, Jesus now stood out--SHINED FORTH--"brighter" in their hearts than either the Law or the Prophets, the primary sources of authority in their religious lives.
We can learn a couple of connected things about spiritual or "mountaintop" experiences here:
(1) the "light of the glory of God" (2 Cor. reading) illumines the sources of authority in our lives--those sources of authority (parents, media, etc.--fill in the blank) need to be in conversation with Jesus (here is a lesson on the need and work of prayer in our lives!)
(2) once "the shining" has subsided, life does not return to normal--the "transfiguration" is for the purpose of "transformation": we should "see only Jesus" and "listen to him"
I think this word is crucial in a world where people's spiritual hunger drives them to any number of spiritual experiments--just like we sometimes meet our physical hungers (and emotional, etc.) in unhealthy ways, so do some spiritually. Where spiritual experiences are concerned--"the proof is in the pudding"--it is the results which follow that are most important. The acid test of true spiritual experience is not so much what we "felt while it was happening" as it is "Did it help us to see only Jesus when it was over?"
[This passage also take on our human desire to "memorialize" spiritual experience, so that we can "recapture the glory" later on. This is a natural response, but not a thoughtful one, as Peter (the "crash test dummy" for all Jesus' disciples, then and now!) demonstrates so well.]
Keep in mind, too, that when Jesus was trans-figured, it PRE-FIGURED what would happen to him through the resurrection. Where once the disciples were encouraged to keep silence--lest people get the idea that Jesus was up to something other than going to the cross or that there could be some other way (see Mark 8)--NOW the disciples (US!) are free to share openly who Jesus is and what he is up to. No longer do we live on "glimpses of glory," but on his promise: "Behold! I am WITH YOU ALWAYS, even to the end of the world." What an important reminder before we plunge into Lent! Just like the disciples, we need this vision of Jesus in order to "tide us over" until Easter--lest we get sidetracked or derailed while looking at our sinfulness and neediness and how long the spiritual journey is, and how far we have to go, and...etc. And if that doesn't connect us with Holy Communion....!!
TK in OK
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 10:32:18 AM
A link about Shrovetide:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13763a.htm
James in AZ
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 11:31:16 AM
I am new to this forum so if this is not acceptable, just take it for what it is worth. I have finished the message for the week but took a different approach than ever before. I concentrated on Peter's words "It is good for us to be here..." the concept is that all of the miracles take place down the mountain and not on the mountain top. That we see only miracles and healings as mountain top experiences. A real moutain top experience is when we are in the presence of the all mighty. I related this also to being in church and partaking of Communion. We are there with others and yet the "moutain top" is that God makes us feel as though like a father to a child, we are the only ones. Peter must have been right "It is good for us to be here...". Keith in N.C.
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 12:25:35 PM
9:3 and his clothes became dazzling white, such as no one on earth could bleach them.
Am I the only one that hears the Ajax Laundry Detergent Commercial Ditty going through my head here... sorry, it's early, for me... I was in bed from Tuesday of last week until Monday of THIS week, bad bronchitus... yucko!
So friends, remember..."Ajax, Laundry detergent is stronger than dirt!" And off goes the white night off into the distance...
with grins,
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 1:50:14 PM
To Pulpit in ND,
Well, you may be going off into the distance after being sick, but your sense of humor is still in tact and that is always a good thing! :-) Susan in Wa.
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 2:14:52 PM
To Pulpitt in ND -- Rick, the bronchitis monster has struck in KS, too. I've been hacking and wheezing for ten days -- finally went to the M.D. today -- and got a script for some sort of cough syrup that costs $98 if you're uninsured!
I don't know if this has any connection with the gospel or not, but medical care in this country sure needs to be metamorphosed!
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 2:40:44 PM
Thanks Susan!
;?) You made me smile...
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 2:41:47 PM
Mike in NC
Shrovetide is the time just before Lent begins. It can range from 4 to 12 days, It is a time of merry making and feasting prior to the fasting of lent. In New Orleans it is Mardi Gras! which has taken on a life of its own and probably bears little resemblance to the origins. My guess is that all the party goers do not then show up for Ash Wed the next day!
There are many traditions, such as pancake suppers, games and times of just silliness, before the solemn season starts.
The link above may also help.
A W-G rocky coast me.
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 3:56:41 PM
I've often heard speculation about Moses and Elijah being there to mean that Jesus is replacing the Law and the Prophets but he didn't. He came to fulfill all that is in the Law and Prophets, not to do away with them.
Mark has quite a large eschatological focus and Elijah was thought to be the forerunner meant to remind one and all that the eschatological time of fulfillment is at hand (John the Baptist is also equated with Elijah). Moses also foretold a prophet coming like him and said "heed such a prophet" (Dt 18.15). In fact the voice from the cloud echoes this text with "listen to him." This can suggest that Jesus is to be seen as the final eschatological prophet foretold by Moses.
The Feast of Tabernacles, or Festival of Booths was a reminder of Israel's wilderness-wandering (Lev 23.39-43) which had taken on an eschatological tone as people thought that in the messianic age God's people would again live in tents and the theocracy would exist once more with God dwelling and ruling directly in their midst. Maybe Peter, seeing Jesus metamorphosed in glory, thinks the dominion has indeed come to power, and now is the time to build booths to have the final Feast of Tabernacles celebration. He has, after all, just previously confessed Jesus as the Messiah.
Jesus tells the disciples not to say anything and here is the only time in Mark that a time limit is placed on the silence. It was necessary to keep silence so that everyone wouldn't be thinking in terms of glory without the cross and resurrection. Since they didn't understand the suffering until after the fact, they also couldn't understand the glory until then.
Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 5:10:58 PM
Some years ago, I recall a homiletics prof preach on this text with a message centered on raising our sights. Perhaps I will follow his lead with a disciple's view of Jesus's SPLENDOR, SUPREMACY, AND SACRIFICIAL LOVE (Ooo, some aliteration working here). Peter, James, and John saw two of the three on the mountain, but the best was yet to be seen...the resurrected Christ and victory. In these dreary days of the last gasps of winter and for some, cabin fever, we need our sights lifted. And the vision of Transfiguration just might do it. ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir (soon to Heidleberg,Germany)
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 5:19:20 PM
What is this burying the "Alleluia"?? Can anyone fill me in with some detail? I have a young people's service this Sunday and like to have some "action" for them. Thanks, Rev Andy in NZ
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 5:55:54 PM
Rev. Andy
Some call it burying the Alleluias, others putting away the Alleluias. If it is your practice to avoid the use of the word Alleluia during Lent to let it be used afresh and anew at Easter you might symbolically show that this Sunday.
I've seen people take their Easter banner down at the end of the Transfiguration of Our Lord service, put it in a water-tight box, and actually go outside the church and bury it in the ground until Easter when it comes out of its grave to join the chorus of Alleluias at the Resurrection of Our Lord. Others simply make the symbolic gesture of removing it from the church this Sunday and bringing it back in at Easter.
I don't know if others have other suggestions of ideas. I didn't actually think of doing it this year (my first year in ministry) and there's too much going on before Sunday to plan something.
Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Date: 2/26/2003
Time: 6:19:13 PM
This is Epiphany. So isn't the BIG THING, God saying, "This is my Son, the Beloved?" Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophecy. I agree that he does not eliminate it. In fact, because we are people saved by grace, we now want to keep the law not as a means to salvation, but in response to it. I will be concentrating on Jesus as fulfillment because I have already preached in prior years about the mountaintop experience and listen to him. PH in OH
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 5:14:18 AM
Folks, has no one looked at the "change" portion of this story? Jesus IS transfigured (changed) here! I like the image Eric suggested by quoting the Anglican prayer. Jesus is "purified" and "cleansed" for his ministry. When we receive Jesus, are we not also to be changed -- purified and cleansed - for our ministries? As I enter the first full month at a new church, we will address the "The Changing Nature Of Christ." This is about how Christ chages us, not about Christ changing in himself. Pausl says that in Chirst, all become new creatures. Ps 50:7-ff (especially when read in conjunction with Ps 51 in preparation for Ash Wednesday) notes that God doesn't need specific external sacrifices, but an inward change of heart. So what changes does God expect? See Micah 6:6-8. Those changes come about as we allow the indwelling of the resurrected Christ. This is part Epiphany for me!
Steve in NC
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 6:14:22 AM
Is anyone making a connection to our impending war? It seems there is choice hear between glory and impending suffering, fear and faith (Peter speaks out of fear). Could it be that we reach for glory experiences when we are afraid? I've heard many people say we should just get this thing in Iraq over with, go in there and take out Saddam, and just come home and have a parade. Seems a bit naive to me. Are such folks reaching for glory without acknowledging the way of the cross. Tim in NY
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 7:34:20 AM
Hello all
It has just struck me that the transfigurtion of Jesus is almost sacramental, in that it is an outward sign of an inner reality; that of being purely and wholly loved by God. If only we could see ourselves that way, as daughters and sons of God
Late week ramblings from a desperate preacher.
Peace,
Mike in SK
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 7:34:48 AM
Hello all
It has just struck me that the transfigurtion of Jesus is almost sacramental, in that it is an outward sign of an inner reality; that of being purely and wholly loved by God. If only we could see ourselves that way, as daughters and sons of God
Late week ramblings from a desperate preacher.
Peace,
Mike in SK
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 9:40:19 AM
Tim in NY
I have resisted speaking about the issue of war in my congregation outside of prayer time, partly because it's still my first year, and we had a very painful beginning. I also, though, just didn't feel moved with what felt like the right thing.
This week it feels like maybe it's time. And the two images that that have stuck out for me are these: the fate of the most vulnerable in the lands threatened by both war and repressive governments; and the vision of a global community committed to both opposing weapons of mass destruction and opposing war. I know there are times when war cannot be avoided, but I also feel these images speaking to me in a loud voice.
For me, these things link clearly to the vision of Christ in his glory. For the way of peace and solidarity with the powerless is his path to glory. The God of Moses, Elijah and Jesus makes a way where there is no way. And if we don't believe that's possible and commit ourselves to it, who will? Listen to him, indeed.
Oops. Got preachy there. Sorry. It's just kind of a big step for me to venture into this territory--I'm trying it on for size. I'm going to keep praying about it.
LM in South TX
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 10:32:18 AM
Steve in NC writes:
"Folks, has no one looked at the "change" portion of this story? Jesus IS transfigured (changed) here!"
I have a little trouble witht the concept of Jesus IS transfigured. Isn't Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
The text says that Jesus "was transfigured before them." I don't think that Jesus changed in and of himself. I think the disciple's vision on Jesus changed. They caught a glimpse of the divinity that embraces the humanity. It was an "ah-ha" experience.
Perhaps we need think think about Jesus being "transfigured before us" and the implications of that.
Pr.del in IA
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 11:16:48 AM
If Jesus is transfigured before us, will we be transfigured after him? Both before and after have more than one meaning. Might be interesting to play with.
Moses had Joshua, who wet up the mountain with him, and took over for him at the river. Elija had Elisha, who went through the river with him and took up his mantle after the whirlwind and chariots of fire ascended. Jesus comes to the mountain with his followers, who would take over his ministry after the wind and fire of Pentecost had descended upon them. Coincidence??
Elija said to Elisha the "double portion" would only come if he saw his master taken. Do the disciples who see Jesus glorified have a greater portion of power than those who "do not see and yet believe?" I always feel a twinge of testimony envy toward those with dramatic salvation stories, wheras I was born and bred in the church and never rebelled. tom in TN(USA)
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 11:33:40 AM
The Transfiguration story tells us who Jesus IS NOT. In the lesson before this, Jesus asks the disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" "Some say, 'Elijah', 'Moses'." Jesus takes Peter, James and John to the mountain, where he is separate - distinctive from - Elijah and Moses. And God says that this is SON, not prophet or political liberator. Even modern passover meals have a place setting for Elijah, the coming Messiah.
Much time is spent in my ministry convincing church members who Jesus is NOT. God already did this on the Mount of Transfiguration. Please don't build a tabernacle for Elijah and put Jesus' name on the front.
Happy homiletics,
Oklahoma Irishman
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 11:33:52 AM
The Transfiguration story tells us who Jesus IS NOT. In the lesson before this, Jesus asks the disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" "Some say, 'Elijah', 'Moses'." Jesus takes Peter, James and John to the mountain, where he is separate - distinctive from - Elijah and Moses. And God says that this is SON, not prophet or political liberator. Even modern passover meals have a place setting for Elijah, the coming Messiah.
Much time is spent in my ministry convincing church members who Jesus is NOT. God already did this on the Mount of Transfiguration. Please don't build a tabernacle for Elijah and put Jesus' name on the front.
Happy homiletics,
Oklahoma Irishman
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 11:39:12 AM
Jesus is purified and changed? Purified and changed from what? Jesus is Emmanuel, "God with us." Why would he need purified or changed? PH in OH
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 12:05:24 PM
I, too, think that the signficance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus is not that Jesus is replacing, or "trumping" them--but that, now, these PRIME SOURCES OF SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY are IN CONVERSATION with Jesus--the disciples, leaving the mountain to face the "real world," could be assured that, in following Jesus, they were not being off base or left out, even when following Jesus leads to the cross.
God's grace to Jesus' "A-Team" of spiritual leaders--Peter, James, John--is to give them an anchor memory, a glimpse of glory, a "foretaste of glory divine" so that later when things seem to be going very badly (the journey to the cross), they can still trust the way Jesus leads them, a way that is in keeping with God's ways from the past (seen in Moses and Elijah). The disciples must neither stop and stay here, mistaking this for the "real deal," nor give up and go home, thinking all is lost when they get to the cross.
I can't help but think of the hymn, "Blessed Assurance" here. We could ask just what people base their assurance upon, and why it is God provides us with that assurance. Assurance has power, but it is only the "down-payment" on God's ultimate victory over sin, death, war, poverty, disease, and brokenness.
The connections with Ash Wednesday and Lent are rich here. The contrast between the "brightness" of Transfiguration Sun. and the "darkness" of Ash Wednesday is compelling. The power and glory of Jesus on display here light the way for us to consider our twin predicaments, that we are sinful and that we are mortal. The season of "the shining"--Epiphany--begins with the "star in the heavens" and ends with the "light on the mountain"--and Easter will dawn with the same light spilling from the door of the empty tomb. Transfiguration marks the mid-way between Christmas and Easter, and it gives us something to both remember and anticipate, since Easter is still a long way off (literally and figuratively speaking).
Holy Communion continues to be a rich, deep, strong source of assurance in the Christian life--not the feast itself but a foretaste of the heavenly banquet.
Still working...
TK in OK
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 1:13:20 PM
Steve in NC -- I don't think the prayer of humble access or the Transfiguration story suggest that Jesus is "purified" or "cleansed" ... but rather that he is revealed as the one who is "pure" and "clean" and can/does purify and cleanse us. There's a difference there. The first suggests that Jesus is changed; the second that we are changed by Jesus. I like the suggestion made by Terry C (based on readings in Orthodox theology) that Jesus remains as he has been -- but is now seen differently by the apostles -- it is they who are "transfigured" (made pure and clean? maybe)
Blessings, Eric in KS (but trying to move somewhere else)
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 2:41:09 PM
Now is the time for silence! for listening! I grew up in the Society of Friends (Quakers) worshipping in "unprogrammed meeting." Each week we would gather for worship, waiting silently, expectantly, for the Holy Spirit to be revealed. At the foot of the transfiguration, we need to "shut our mouths" and keep silent.
On the Tents/Booths/Tabernacles question & the relationship w/ Moses & the Prophets: We probably approach Transfiguration at the wrong time of the year. This event seems to have happened at the end of the fruit-bearing season, when the Hebrew people would have been celebrating Sukkot- The Feast of Tabernacles - an 8 day festival celebrating the fall harvest. It is one of three times each year when able bodied Jewish Men were required to come to Jerusalem. Often, the whole family would make the trip for the festival, and they would build a booth of sticks & vines to dwell in for the length of the festival. Thus it is no wonder that Peter is thinking about putting up his booth here on the side of the mountain. Another possible connection here is the celebration of Simchat Torah, the last day of the feast which represents the last day of the "lectionary" year of readings of the Torah. Perhaps the Transfiguration is showing us that all of the Law and the Prophets have led up to this moment in time - that Jesus is the one to whom the Law & the Prophets have pointed toward. I especially like this idea since after the voice from heaven came - all that remains is Jesus. Let us stand in the awe of the moment - God is among us. pastorchris in TX This Feast has the
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 3:07:05 PM
Thanks so much for all your comments. Although I've gone a different way than most of you, everything said has contributed. I think I've got my perennial three points.
Jesus is God on the Mountain. Because of who Jesus is:
1) We have a Master - Jesus is sovereign over all things. Nobody could look at Jesus standing in glory and doubt for one moment who was "in charge." Jesus is Lord on this mountain (probably Hermon), He is Lord at the Mount of Olives where He ascended, and He is Lord at a hill called Golgotha. Whatever the mountain, He is Lord. He is also Lord of our mountains; our financial mountains, housing mountains, marriage mountains - Christ is Lord on every mountain and He is sovereign over them. (Note: He is also sovereign over our world situation, whatever our varied nations may be facing.)
2) We have a Message - This is God's Son; hear Him. We preach Christ. We have no other message but Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor. 1:23). Who He is and what He taught us are our message (Matthew 28:19). Hear Him, and then preach Him.
3) We have a Ministry - We are not to build tabernacles, but to go on from here. Our comfort zone is not where God calls us to remain. Jesus shall reign over all the earth, but the path to that reign goes through a boy with an evil spirit, children who need His touch, and a cross. If we want to get to the "Promised Land," we have to go through the wilderness. We must embrace God's will to achieve God's glory.
Now... I appreciate any comments before I put this one to bed.
JG in WI
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 6:48:06 PM
Hi,
Following is my initial outline for the sermon on the transfiguration. It is incomplete and I am sharing it with you in the hopes that it will give you something to think about and I am sharing it with you in the hopes that some of you will point out ways I can improve this. One of the issues in the background is an idea from one of my seminar professors who is an expert in Orthodox Christianity. He said the Eastern Chruch has a different take on this. Immediately following the verse in which the disciples are told ,“there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power," is the transfiguration. In the Eastern Church, it is believed that Jesus was radiant in his glory all the time. He didn’t change, but the disciples changed and were able to see him as he really was all the time. I hope to use this alternate understanding as another chance to talk to the congregants about looking for Jesus in unexpected ways and places as he reaches out to them in love. I plan to ask them to try to receive Jesus by looking for him in Communion.
Initial outline:
I. (Teaching) During the first part of the sermon I will remind those who have forgotten both the importance of the Christian year and where we are in the year. I believe I need to remind them of the way Moses & Elijah fit into the story of the transfiguration. I will review other examples of the glory cloud which God’s presence and divinity. And I will review of what happened at the top of the mountain.
II. (Today’s Lesson) I plan to comment on going to the mountain as part of the preparation for Lent. I will talk about Peter’s desire to stay on top of the Mountain, but our call to the cross. I will comment on the fact that these 3 disciples were especially close to Jesus and saw what others did not see. I will point out that they were changed by the experience. I will mention the alternate view that it was the fact that they were changed that allowed them to see the glory of Jesus. (I have a couple of stories I’ll use about people being changed by the Word of God that I hope the people will find interesting and helpful.)
III. (Communion) I will remind them that the human Jesus did change. His body was strong, he was able to walk, talk, and heal. Then his body was broken on a cross. His blood flowed with life from his heart. Then, his blood was spilled on the ground. He was changed from a living, breathing body, to a dead and lifeless corpse. Then, most importantly he changed the power of death and conquered it for each of his children.
I will remind them Christ wants to come alive in their life in a new and special way, and point out that the communion elements and the communion service is a special channel which He opens to us to give us his spirit. I will remind them that Jesus loves them so much that he was broken, bled and died, and that he loves them so much that he wants to be with them now. I will ask them to change, and to look for Jesus in a new and different way as they receive the elements.
Leon<>< in NC
Date: 2/27/2003
Time: 7:32:15 PM
Eric in KS...
Thanks for your note too, I musta skipped right over it... $98 if you have insurance? YIKERS... what is your deductable? We need some good UMC's in Kansas and North and South Dakota... I think I only paid $15 for mine and it has CODENE in it...or is it KODENE? HOwever you spell it, it's GREAT stuff for sleepin' - Whahoo!
;?)
pulpitt in ND
but, back to the text, sorry folks...
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 6:38:33 AM
As I reflected on these lessons, it seems to me that the theme is death. Elijah is taking leave, Elisha stays close to him. The Apostles experience Jesus transfigured as he prepares for his passion and death - giving them a vision of the glory to come. The Epistle is a reminder to us that only those who have faith can see beyond the apparent blindness of this world. To preach this Sunday is to prepare our people for death, and in the process we are preparing them for life. It is the beginning of our journey into Lent.
tom in ga
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 6:46:34 AM
I know I am jumping in super late here - busy with visioning process - have been reflecting on text over the past few weeks. I am using this week to begin a sermon series on how we are transformed - adding the component to glorify God.(transfigured) The series is called "Finding God in Everyday Living" Through Spiritual Discipline. We will begin with a God Hunt - looking for incidences in our everyday lives of God's presence - God incidences - transfigured moments. Each worship service in Lent we will concetrate on one or two of the spiritual disciplines that are found in the lectionary scriptures and how through their use in our "ordinary" lives we can be transformed to help others see/recognize God'e presence. Sorry to hear everyone has been ill. I think we all know how important sabbath is to our jobs, but just never seem to get the time - sometimes we have help! :-)
The other PH now in MI
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 7:35:32 AM
I like Eugene Petersen's take on this passage, especially if you begin with verse 1: "Then he drove it home by saying, "This isn't pie in the sky by and by. Some of you who are standing here are going to see it happen, see the kingdom of God arrive in full force." (Verse 2): Six days later, three of them DID see it.... Haven't spent some time with that yet, but I like the possibilities.... PM in PA
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 8:54:14 AM
As an interest apart from my sermon, but just because I am curious - I am interested in the word translated, "dwellings, booths, tabernacles, tents." (Depends on which translation you use) It is very rich in OT history. Booths - Fesival of Booths Tabernacles - The "tent" that they worship the Lord in during their jouneys in the wilderness. The only English word that does not immeadiately bring to mind some sort of OT reference is "dwelling." This is one of those times when I wish I had a septuigent handy to really see what kind of references were in Peter's and Mark's minds. Don't really think the info would help my sermon all that much, but it would satisfy the curiousity of the person inside of me who loves to do such research. Oh, to be back in seminary, with a wonderful library full of almost any book I wanted and a fully stocked LOGOS program on the Library Computers at my disposal anytime I wanted them. Kaza in Kansas
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 9:32:13 AM
A late post - someone asked for a story, so I offer this: On a long flight home to Canada from overseas, conditions were rough, and the plane bucked about like a cork in a hurricane. Everyone was very quiet, and I imagine prayer was on most folks' minds, for ourselves and for the pilot who was "driving" the aircraft. Clouds were unusually high, too, so the cabin was dull even though it was a daylight flight. Finally, everything calmed down, sighs of relief whooshed out of all of us. Suddenly, although we were still in the cloud, light flooded through the windows, light like I had never seen before. Diffused by the cloud, it seemed to put a glow on everyone's face, and even the air in the cabin was alight. It only lasted a few moments, but for me, it was like a comforting reassurance from God that the turbulence had given way to peace, and we were held in his presence with or without that visible presence. A moment of Shekinah? A note to Leon <>< in NC: I had a student once who used "you" and "your" in her preaching. My folks commented "It sounds as if she's lecturing us. Doesn't she think any of this applies to her?" May I humbly suggest using "we" and "our"? Thank you all for your suggestions and ministry to one another - you're awesome! Frandy
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 10:33:44 AM
Each episode started with Rogers donning a cardigan sweater and comfortable shoes as he enters his home in the "Neighborhood of Make Believe".
At a ceremony marking the show's 25th Anniversary Year? Roger's said, "It's not the honors and not the titles and not the power that is of ultimate importance. It's what resides inside." USA Today Isn't this what RADIANCE Jesus reflected to us all? love from the inside out?
It seems as though Jesus has taken the disciples to the "land of Make Believe"... where they have visions of prophets they've heard about but never have met before.
Perhaps that's a stretch I know... still, I love(d) Fred Rogers for his befriending us all. A Christlike quality to be sure... and to be followed.
Keep up the good work folks? the "Show" must go on?
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 10:34:31 AM
I am sure by now you're all aware that Fred Rogers died this past Thursday early morning due to a brief battle with stomach cancer. He was on television, a PBS program entitled Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.
Each episode started with Rogers donning a cardigan sweater and comfortable shoes as he enters his home in the "Neighborhood of Make Believe".
At a ceremony marking the show's 25th Anniversary Year? Roger's said, "It's not the honors and not the titles and not the power that is of ultimate importance. It's what resides inside." USA Today Isn't this what RADIANCE Jesus reflected to us all? love from the inside out?
It seems as though Jesus has taken the disciples to the "land of Make Believe"... where they have visions of prophets they've heard about but never have met before.
Perhaps that's a stretch I know... still, I love(d) Fred Rogers for his befriending us all. A Christlike quality to be sure... and to be followed.
Keep up the good work folks? the "Show" must go on?
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 11:28:04 AM
Frandy,
Thanks for your story on the plane, a wonderful image... I have been there too... turbulance gives way to peace... appreciated the metaphor for life with Christ's spirit blazing the way for us...
I wrote the following prayer for this Sunday... my little sis, who I send some of my "stuff" to, wrote, "Much as I agree with your view, isn't it a bit much to place your view as THE view..." I wrote and told her how I was their "spiritual leader"... and have gotten many kudos for keeping "life" in perspective with God.
Here is my prayer(s)... for what their worth...
PRAYER FOR CENTERING OUR THOUGHTS (Unison) The days around us seem dark, O Lord, we are spent and we don't seem to know right from wrong. Dazzle us with your brilliance instead of the light of bombs bursting in air over Baghdad. There has to be a better way to solve problems in our day and age. Why, in the days of old we didn't have electronics and science was still in its infancy. Yet, you gathered on the mountaintop with prophets of old. Is there not a way to make peace in our world today? We want all people to feel the safety of your love for them too. Shine a new hope in our hearts as we seek justice along with peace in your world. May this light be a new and brighter light that will lead us all in the ways of peace. -Amen-
PRAYER OF DEDICATION (Unison) Change our minds when it comes to giving Lord. You have given us all things even when we haven't deserved this much. Transfigure these gifts to match the feelings of our heart of hearts so that we might truly give as sacrificially as you give to us each day. Receive these gifts as a mere portion of our great love for you. -Amen-
BENEDICTION (Unison) Surrounded with the strength of your love, we go forth to be that bright and shining star of hope. It is there in the distance and we reach for it together as children of you O God. Be with us; and all the children of the world. We pray for Peace. -Amen-
Thanks to whoever wrote the Call to Worship... I borrowed it and wrote another...
CALL TO WORSHIP (Responsively) Gather us, O God, and draw us near to one another.
Disarm our pride; overcome our fear of those we don't understand.
Feed us, for our souls hunger for your knowledge.
Illumine us, for we are in need of your wisdom.
Kick up your heels with us, for we long to hear your laughter again.
Guide us, for we often lose our way even as we seek to follow.
As we join together on this day,
Fill us with your inner radiance that reaches out to all.
(I don't recall who said it first) "Preach the word bros and sisters, if necessary... use words..."
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 11:30:29 AM
LM in South TX
Just a word of advice... when I was ordained, the Bishop laid hands on my head and said, "Rick... take thou authority to preach the Gospel..."
Later, when I was struggling with "Coming clean" from the pulpitt, an elder once said, "Rick, if you don't preach it from your pulpit... who will?"
Those words haunt me each and every Sunday morning...
So preach it... LM in South TX - for if you don't, who will?
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 1:16:54 PM
Thanks Tom in Ontario for the "Alleluias" help. We'll give it a go this Sunday.We have some artistic types in our young people's group so they'll make a rather attractive banner. It's a great idea bringing it out on Easter Sunday. My folks are very visual. Rev Andy in NZ
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 1:54:58 PM
Have you ever been hiking? Up a mountain...did your boots fit you very well? Did you bring enough water and food? Did your boots fit you very well? When we are out hiking...how much time do we spend on the mountain? Just long enough to eat lunch before making our way back down the mountain. I wonder what happened on the way down.
Peter doesn't know what to say...and yet he speaks...what do they all say after seeing such a sight? What happens on the way down? We are so quick to look for mountaintop experiences but we never stay on the mountain, we come back down and we live our lives--but maybe differently. Maybe the way back down is a time of growth. A time of renewal. A time of putting the moutaintop into our experience and connecting it to the past and the future of our experience. Kari, CA
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 2:00:02 PM
Thanks everyone from a new contributer 'down under'. Your comments are always helpful CM-
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 3:15:25 PM
I have one question, which I hope somebody can answer or help me find out the answer. Why does the Book of Common Prayer - in the Episcopal Church - (as well as some other churches that follow the lectionary) have this Transfiguration more than once a year: this last Sunday of Epiphany before Lent starts and again in August?? What's the point of having this special Transfiguration Day in August when we already do it on the last Sunday of Epiphany? It's been so delightful and helpful to read all of your insights. I always learn something new from this website. Have a nice weekend y'all! -Will in CT
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 3:29:58 PM
I never liked Mr. Rogers; he was too predictable and sweet for my tastes as an adult. But because my kids liked to watch the show, I learned to appreciate him through their eyes. I just read a lengthly obit on Mr. Rogers. And I was thinking how important it is what and whom our kids listen to. It can have a big effect on their lives, their sense of safety etc. We had to stop watching the evening news in my house (even though my husband was a newswriter and wrote part of the show), because it was too scarey for my youngest daughter. She was unusually sensitive and paid attention to what was happening, and she would have nightmares. We live in New York City, and I guess there's enough in our neighborhood to be afraid of. You don't have to add more from the news. It was too much for her. Better to stick with Mr. Rogers. That predictable, safe and affirming message was helpful to her.
The same applies to us. Who do we listen to? Our gospel lesson tells us to listen to Jesus... not always predictable and safe, but we are adults...
Any other ideas on listening out there?
DGinNYC
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 3:59:50 PM
Will in CT -- The reason for two observances of the Transfiguration is historical. August 6 was set as the date for the Feast of the Transfiguration by Pope Callistus 3 in 1457 (although its observance predates that papal decision by several centuries). That date was continued in post-Reformation Anglican calendars (including the Episcopal Church's calendar of observances).
With the 20th Century's advent of common lectionaries, the Gospel lesson of the Transfiguration event was put on the last Sunday after the Epiphany (coinciding with the Synoptic Gospel's chronology of events).
Thus, in the Episcopal Church, we have the Transfiguration story showing up in the normal course of the lectionary AND as a separate feast following the historical catholic calendar.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 4:00:06 PM
DGinNYC
True... surypy nice was Mr. Rogers... no "REAL" person could be that nice! That's why he many found it fun to poke fun at him... he took it in stride... I was reading how he enjoyed being "made fun of" by the Saturday Night Live's Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood.
The experience on the mountaintop was so terrific that any thing that followed paled in comparison... Jesus needed the assurance that he WAS... soon he will wonder if there is a God as he goes to the wilderness... tempted.
Each of us has those KODAK moments too, when life is forever frozen now on digital cameras... made so we can send them "immediately" to our family and friends... so that THEY too might FEEL what we felt.
Listen, don't tell... sorry, I'm like Peter... I'll tell NOW and listen later...
With grins and care for your wisdom again this week,
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 4:04:48 PM
PS to Will in CT -- The Episcopal Church has only had two observances of the Transfiguration since adopting the three-year lectionary that came in with the "proposed" Prayer Book of 1976 which became the 1979 BCP when ratified. Prior to that, under the 1928 Prayer Book, the Sunday next before Lent was called "Quinquagesima" and the Gospel lesson was always Luke 18:31-43 in which Jesus predicts the manner of his death and resurrection, and then heals a blind man.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 5:38:07 PM
pulpitt in ND
You wondered who first said, "Preach the word bros and sisters, if necessary... use words..."
The way I heard it, it was "Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." I had also heard it was St. Francis of Assisi; my favorite saint, I might add.
JG in WI
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 7:00:03 PM
Another thought on listening. Elisha didn't "listen" (in terms of obey) to Elijah, when Elijah told him to stay behind. He did listen to his heart, and his desire to be with Elijah no matter what.
DGinNYC
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 8:22:03 PM
To Eric in KS from Will in CT: MANY THANKS for your answers to my question. I had thought there might be something "mystical" but alas I'm wrong. Yes, I'm one of those "burning the midnight oil" although I've been pondering on the texts all week. One thing that I discovered several years ago was that in early August the Feast of Transfiguration occurs the same day the USA bombed Hiroshima in August of 1945 or was it Nagasaki? Can't remember which city in Japan? And the priest that Sunday pointed out the possible significant connection: Jesus transfigured in a blinding light like the atomic mushroom exploded in a blinding light. One is heavenly good the other is evil... sigh... it was quite a shock to hear those words but the priest had an excellent point. Sorry to bring up such sad thoughts but thought people want to be aware of this come this August.
Blessings to all as we approach each day especially on the pulpit this Sunday- Will in CT
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 10:11:51 PM
JG in WI
Thanks for confirming that well-known St. Francis quote... I knew it was someone famous! ;?)
pulpitt in ND
Date: 2/28/2003
Time: 11:09:49 PM
Thanks Tim in NY for raising the question of preaching something related to the threatened (God forgive us) war. How can one preach now WITHOUT reference to it? I know my sermon title: "Seeing in the dark". But not all the details. The general theme is how we make our way through when the lights are off, when things seem hopeless, when evil is all around. The image that comes to mind for me is lightning flashes on a dark night. Brief instants when one can see things 'as they really are' and get one's bearing in order to traverse safely a little ways farther along. Thank you, God, for those moments of assurance. Help me to remember the last one while waiting in hope for the next (because I am forgetful and scared of the dark). Shalom--Calvin,MN
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 9:18:22 AM
Though I am going in a different direction, I noticed a catchy pattern for the disciples growing as Jesus takes them to a mountain to be alone, a heightening experience; displays His glory, a brightening vision; the fear results in frightening; and the voice and intructions are enlightening.
What of our growing in faith? Are we taken to new heights, alone with Jesus? Do we see any of the glorious splendor of Christ? Does it brighten our faith? And what of the fears and uneasiness of God's presence among us? Must there not be an enlightening before we too transform our lives? Lots of questions. Still working on it this late in the week. ARMY CH E, Ft Belvoir.
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 2:49:53 PM
hello i just started reading these posts last week and am very glad that i happened on to this site. i hope to visit here on a regular basis from now on.
christine in nj
this is very last minute, but for those of you still trying to figure out what to do with the alleluia tomorrow: the first transfiguration sunday i had at my current call i had all the sunday school kids color pictures of the word alleluia that i had printed up on my computer.
during worship they all showed them off then put them in a box which we sealed with a note that said: do not open until easter.
i then took the pictures and printed them onto fabric transfer paper and ironed them onto fabric which one of the women in my congregation then sewed into an altar hanging.
on easter sunday we began worship with the sunday school opening up the box to see how their pictures had been transformed into something new. and then we put the new hanging on the altar.
it was really a neat way to show the kids how God transforms us in the message of easter.
God's peace
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 2:50:12 PM
hello i just started reading these posts last week and am very glad that i happened on to this site. i hope to visit here on a regular basis from now on.
christine in nj
this is very last minute, but for those of you still trying to figure out what to do with the alleluia tomorrow: the first transfiguration sunday i had at my current call i had all the sunday school kids color pictures of the word alleluia that i had printed up on my computer.
during worship they all showed them off then put them in a box which we sealed with a note that said: do not open until easter.
i then took the pictures and printed them onto fabric transfer paper and ironed them onto fabric which one of the women in my congregation then sewed into an altar hanging.
on easter sunday we began worship with the sunday school opening up the box to see how their pictures had been transformed into something new. and then we put the new hanging on the altar.
it was really a neat way to show the kids how God transforms us in the message of easter.
God's peace
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 3:26:15 PM
The title of my sermon will be: ""Poised on the Verge of Lent--What Are You Taking to the Desert?" The I am going to 'marry' the readings (we have Ps. 27 in the Episcopal lectionary tomorrow--a powerful psalm indeed!)and from all the readings, I glean that strength and confidence (fr. Ps. 27) plus revelation plus the Holy Spirit equal (Ta Da!)Transformation! And we can experience this journey throughout Lent until the day of Resurrection, when all these themes come together and we are transformed, when we celebrate a 'transformation' of death into life, of despair into hope, of the desert into a lush spring meadow crowded with flowers (or at least a sanctuary crowded with lilies!). The visual cues of light are very important to us, especially for those of us in the Northeast who have had such a gray and snowy winter. And while we are just beginning our journey into the desert this Wednesday, we enter with sure hope and sure knowledge of salvation. The light of the transfigured Christ is the light that will shine through us on Easter morning. Six weeks of Lent begin to seem long--but it makes us appreciate the light of resurrection in an entirely new way. I commented to a friend today as we attended a Eucharist service that we better get out our 'alleluias' out now and enjoy them, since we do put them away at Lent, but then, on Easter morning, they become something new and wonderful again. The church rings with new sureness and joy--but first there's the desert. I know what I'm taking with me--I'm taking the vision of the transfigured Christ, the light of the world, to guide my path, to create light in places where there isn't enough, to give me strength when I have too little, to give me hope when, by about the third week, I am tired of fasting!!!! I will suggest that this vision is our Lenten guide, and our hope. Ahem...my first contruibution and late on Sat. night, but the Holy Spirit is mighty! Praise God! Laurie in upstate NY
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 5:21:30 PM
christine in nj
Thanks for the great idea... although I may not do what you did I may share your story of how YOU did it... That is my favorite part of this site... telling stories to share the Gospel... your story will preach in ND... and wherever...
also Laurie in upstate NY "Poised on the Verge of Lent--What Are You Taking to the Desert?" I love the title... gets my ideas going too relating the text to what we seemingly are about to do in the Desert.
Thanks again to all... preach it...
if you don't, who will?
pulpitt in ND
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 7:44:36 PM
Eric in KS (and trying to move) Frm Steve in NC
Point well made and point well taken. In my opening, I note that many will read my title "The Changing Nature of Christ" as an inference that Christ is changed, rather than it is Christ who changes us.
Good luck with the search to move.
Steve In NC
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 8:05:43 PM
Although not really relating to the text at all...relating to the comments about Mr. Rogers...did you realize, he was a Presbyterian Minister, the first ever to be ordained not to a church or charge but to a T.V.Show, Mr. Rogers, one who worked for God in a way of gentle teaching, through simple messages that effected many children and people in this world... Sorry, working all week upon funeral after funeral after funeral after funeral again. Am truly blessed to be able to complete my sermon with your thoughts shared to guide my work for God.
Prayerfully thankful to God and to the "Desperate Preachers" truly wished I had be spurred in the direction of What are you taking to the desert? I loved that spark but went in the direction of "Listen to him, and moments of Glory are yours." Thank you. JJ. in Ontario
Date: 3/1/2003
Time: 8:12:06 PM
I'm heading out... it's late I know... I'm going to Wal-Mart and buy them out of "Tea Lights"... here is a last minute idea for churches during Lent... I'll hand one to each person as they leave church tomorrow... and Ash Wednesday...
My plan is a simple one... during the next 6 weeks of lent, each and Every Wednesday...I'm going to have a time of prayer here in our Sanctuary... and beginning today EACH SUNDAY... I'm going to light our Christ candle and name it our candle of PEACE. Then, Each Wednesday during the noon hour... I invite you to join me as you are able... you are free to stay the whole hour... in prayer... or only long enough to light your candle of peace and then leave. You will be invited to come forward and light a prayer candle along this communion rail... and today you'll take one home as well... That way, at supper time, or first thing in the morning I invite you to join me in prayer at your home. If you don't get a candle here today, that's fine, any candle will do... I want you to light a candle of peace in your home and in your heart and together we can pray for peace and safety for all of God's children, whether their in the armed forces or children on the streets of Baghdad. Each time you walk by your candle... lit or not... say a breath prayer for peace. Something like..."Lord we pray for peace!" -Amen- Join me then, either in person here or in spirit here as you pray in the warmth of your own home...it's up to you. However you decide to... I invite you to join me in prayer...as we pray for our church, our community, our nation and our world. Seeing ourselves reflected in the image of God transformed in each of us... we'll pray together.
pulpitt in ND