Date: 08 Feb 2000
Time: 19:52:39
... apart, by themselves.
We know from the gospels that Jesus and his closest disciples went apart to pray. The transfiguration is the fruit of prayer, communication with God. Peter's question is okay as far as it goes, but it interrupts the prayer. When you are being intimate with some one you love, you don't suddenly say "hey, we need to capture this on film!" That is exactly what Peter wanted, some way to stay in the moment - he didn't understand that the "moment" is always God's gift, never something to "be had or held"
Our God is always hidden from us "either behind or in a cloud" The cloud itself is a metaphor of his hidden indwelling within us. This is such a sacred reading, and to preach it we will be following in the foot steps of Peter - trying to hold on that which stands before us in mystery.
May we know this transfiguring presence in our own lives as we give ourselves to prayer and contemplation.
tom in ga
Date: 11 Feb 2000
Time: 13:12:00
I am intrigued by the parallels between this passage and Mark 1:11. In Mark 1:11 the voice from heaven says "You are my Son, the Beloved, with you I am well pleased." In Mark 9:7 the voice from heaven says "This is my Son, the Beloved, listen to him!" There is something there about the progression of Jesus' ministry, and perhaps something about affirmation?
Early musings.
MN
Date: 13 Feb 2000
Time: 04:55:42
This is one of those pictures from the gospel which can never be forgotten and is said by one writer, the name eludes me at the moment that Mark in his placement of this story reveals the human person of Jesus reaching his divine potential
Ed from Australia
Date: 15 Feb 2000
Time: 02:40:38
"They saw no one but only Jesus"-may we see only Jesus as we enter into the Lenten season ahead. glad in Il
Date: 15 Feb 2000
Time: 02:42:16
A bit of silliness-but do we finally have Moses standing in the Promised Land?
Date: 16 Feb 2000
Time: 20:31:03
No Moses standing in the Promised Land is not at all silly. It is wonderful. But how do we deal with Jesus communicating with those whose lives had been centuries before, while at the same time denouncing messages channeled from persons no longer living this earthly life?
How do we say it is ok for Jesus to have communication with the dead but not ok for ordinary people to do this?
Date: 16 Feb 2000
Time: 20:34:30
People are passionate about angels today. Did Moses and Elijah appear in Angelic form? How much room do we have for angels?
Date: 18 Feb 2000
Time: 04:42:01
I wonder if Jesus' communication with Moses and Elijah is intended to tie in the idea of Jesus' timelessness. It makes me think of John 8 where Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I am". I've always loved that.....
Madeleine L'Engle talks about an icon that she once saw (perhaps someone will have more detail here) in which King Solomon is holding the baby Jesus on his lap. The chronology of that image is very powerful, as is the image offered in this text.
Early yet, but thank you all for the kick-start! It's just what I need to get started.....
SueCan
Date: 18 Feb 2000
Time: 07:19:52
I was struck by the intensity of Peter and the other disciples' fear. "He did not know what to say, for they were terrified."
What was the nature of his fear?
What are the fears of disciples today?
Nigel in Australia
Date: 19 Feb 2000
Time: 13:59:09
My musings are on the emphasis of Jesus being singled out; i.e. God telling the disciples to listen to Jesus (My Inclusive Language Lectionary book words it: "...to this one you shall listen.") and then the disciples no longer saw Moses and Elijah, but "Jesus only." But it's also interesting that Elijah and Moses were talking to Jesus. I wonder what they were saying to him. If it were OK to make guesses, I might think they talked about the Spirit (as opposed to the Letter) of the Law, and sharing their wisdom and experience about how Jesus's life and ministry would/could fulfill their own ministries??? Or is that going too far afield? Also, I don't want to miss the importance of the experience - the awesomeness of it!
JGentle, Hospital Chaplain in Ks.
Date: 21 Feb 2000
Time: 01:10:46
I love this story and there are some great questions already. But before we get too far afield, maybe it's good to remember the basics:
Moses is perhaps the best personification of the Torah, and Elijah the best personfication of the Prophets. Placing Jesus in their midst, extends the authority of both the Law and Prophets into the ministry of Jesus. God's instructions (which are very importantly tied to the words at his baptism), and the fact that only Jesus remains, points to Christ as the final authority and makes him the embodiment and fulfillment of all the Law and Prophets offer to the Covenant with God and God's people.
Jeff in AR
Date: 21 Feb 2000
Time: 03:49:24
Jeff, I love your concise comment putting Moses, Elijah and Jesus into perspective as Law and the prophets and Jesus. I wonder does that extend to representatives of Law and Grace, and in the end seeing "Only grace." It seems to me that most people understand Law but the understnading of grace is a little thin.
Date: 21 Feb 2000
Time: 08:09:04
An above post poses the question of angels and if Moses and Elijah appeard in "angelic form." People are passionate about angels today. But the angels most persons are passionate about are the ones on their shoulders, the ones who protect them during life's little difficulties. It is a "pop", understanding of angels.
There is a lot to angels. But, since this text doesn't speak of them, it could be problematic to include Moses and Elijah into popular understanding of angels.
Jim in Alaska
Date: 22 Feb 2000
Time: 11:10:31
<How do we say it is ok for Jesus to have communication with the dead but not ok for ordinary people to do this?>
Certainly there are some things permissible for God that are not so for men. Note, too, this encounter was not initiated by Jesus or a human channeler.
Someone questioned where Grace figures in to this. Moses and Elijah were as dependent on Christ finishing his work as we. Perhaps that is what they were talking about?
Layspeaker Mike
Date: 23 Feb 2000
Time: 23:20:45
I have to admit a certain ignorance about the communication with the dead thing; Jesus was human as well as divine, his humanity taken on purposely (ie did not count equality a thing to be grasped but humbled himself...)so that clearly would have him subject to ordinary human "rules".. yet it seems he "completed" the law in other instances of conflict with Jewish authorities. Perhaps it paves the way for a new undrstanding of sorts from this part of the law? This may be a way into this strange text for people who have seen the Sixth Sense and wonder about it. Recently the previous pastor of the congregation I serve was tragically killed in an auto accident and I have received repeated reports of commincations with him from church members. Also, dead family members seem to show up in the rooms of parishioners who are close to dying on a semi-regular basis, according to their own reports.
So, can someone help me with the biblical / theological aspects of this? Pam in Tampa
Date: 24 Feb 2000
Time: 11:02:12
Pam in Tampa,
It seems that two tests may be helpful in these cases:
One is the question as to who initiated the conversation. I believe strongly that we are not to seek to communicate with the dead. It is clearly prohibited in the Bible.
The other test assumes we haven't initiated the communication. Under these cirumstances we are well advised to "test the spirits". I've no experience of my own to speak of (as relates to apparent communication with the "dead"). I have read enough in the way of anecdotes to suspect that the dead are impersonated by both angels and demons.
Layspeaker Mike
Date: 25 Feb 2000
Time: 02:01:20
My own early thoughts...
I identify completely with Peter! "Wait! No! Let's hold on to what we have here! This is a great, life- changing experience, and I want to enjoy it and contemplate it for a while! (Maybe forever!)."
Yet Jesus calls him down the mountain... Ouch.
Another thought. I suspect Peter, James and John's limited insight (at least in this gospel!) would lead them to conclude that NOW they had seen the true glory of their Lord! Bright lights, apparitions, heavenly voice and all!
Except... Jesus will have none of it. His glory is not to be found on the mountain surrounded by a lot of heavenly special effects. It is to be found in suffering service, ultimately expressed and shown on a cross. Again I say, "Ouch!"
Do I really want to follow THIS Jesus, the one who serves and suffers and dies in agony, or do I, like Peter, want to keep the glowing one on the mountain?
This is how we start our Lenten journey. God be with us all.
Rick in Canada, eh?
Date: 25 Feb 2000
Time: 18:53:03
I can relate to the reluctance to follow the Jesus of the cross, Rick. Maybe what this passage does for us here at the beginning of Lent is to set before us the promise (the glory) of the resurrection, as an encouragement to move through the challenges of Lent and the cross.
Janice, Ks
Date: 26 Feb 2000
Time: 21:42:06
Just a jumping off point . . . does anyone see a way to connect the two mountains (hills) . . . transfiguration and crucifixion? RM
Date: 26 Feb 2000
Time: 21:42:38
Just a jumping off point . . . does anyone see a way to connect the two mountains (hills) . . . transfiguration and crucifixion? RM
Date: 27 Feb 2000
Time: 01:33:16
A few early observations... Jesus takes three men of earth who then encounter three beloved men/prophets of God, an interesting pairing. Secondly, Jesus leads them up a "high" mountain, not just any old mountain. This place is uniquely special to Mark.Thirdly, there's that wonderful theophany, the voice coming from heaven that echoes Mark 1: 11, "This is my son, the beloved, listen to him." Perhaps this is the greatest lesson of the passage: "listen to him." Did the disciples listen? Do we listen? PL in MI
Date: 27 Feb 2000
Time: 12:08:48
Pam in Tampa, Layspeaker Mike,
In considering Jesus' speaking with the "dead" it is interesting to note that Elijah was actually carried from this world on a 'fiery chariot'. In Moses case, there are questions about his burial, where and whether it actually occured.
Marshall
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 01:28:44
In regards to those asking about Elijah, if we look at the Transfiguration in the gospel of Matthew, in chapter 17:11-12 it says, "Jesus replied," To be sure, Elijah comes and restores all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but they have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."" Jesus was referring to John the Baptist here. Also if we look in Deuteronomy chapter 33:5, it leaves no doubt in my mind that Moses was dead. It tells us that "He" buried him. That leads me to believe that God buried Moses and no one else. I also believe that God sends angels in our midst to help us in dire times of need. We are also told to test the spirits in 1st John 4. We are not to initiate the contact with the departed of this world, that is witchcraft and sorcery. I myself have had an experience with an angel of the Lord. We had moved in to a new apartment and felt very uncomfortable with the sleeping arrangements that this apartment demanded. There was a very small bedroom at the top of the stairs that my wife and I could not fit into, so we gave it to our little girl at the time. I feared so much for her safety, that I could not sleep at night. I knew that if a fire ever broke out that we might not be able to get to her room to save her. After about two months, a heard sounds like someone walking up the stairs. I rolled over and looked down the hallway, and at the end of it, standing by my daughters door, was my uncle who had died some years before. As I continued to looked in utter amazement, all he said was, she is well protected, do not fear for her safety. I looked again, and he was gone. A sudden felling of peace and tranquility washed over me. I had no more problems or concerns about her safety. I thank God for his assurance that nothing would happen to her. Back to the text, God has initiated this meeting between Jesus, Moses, and Elijah. I think it is perfectly alright to go there, but gently and carefully. Pastor Don in NY
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 02:27:19
Well, Marshall beat me to it, but that's o.k.
Yes, Elijah went up in the chariot of fire. Slightly more curious because less detail is given, Enoch "walked with God, and was not". Given these two instances of going to God without dying (somebody's always finding a loophole!), if you can believe them, go back and read the account of Moses' death and burial, all in the hands of God, with no witnesses and no evidence found even after an exhaustive search. It has always seemed to me a lot like Elijah's story. So, Jesus speaks to the living who have gone the way he is soon going, too.
Keep puzzling over the God who never promises to do things small enough for us pea-brains to understand. Love, tom in TN(USA)
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 03:12:12
Each Sunday in my ELCIC Lutheran congregation we confess that we believe in "the communion of Saints". This communion is open to all. I find it very interesting that the disciples with Christ were able to recognize Moses and Elijah, This would seem to put even the resurrection into a now mold in the shadow of calvary's cross. Some musings from a not yet desperate preacher in Canada Dave
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 14:20:25
I am taking a completely different approach to this text and would appreciate any feedback and suggestions you may have.
I am playing with a working title, "Going Up and Coming Down." The purpose of this sermon is to educate the congregation about the rhythms, cycles, and seasons of the liturgical year.
Since arriving at this congregation in 1999, I have noticed that they have followed the liturgical calendar for a few years now, but have never understood why. As we prepare to make the transition into Lent, I am taking this opportunity to address the "why" issue.
I am interpreting the text to be a significant turning point for Jesus. Before going up the mountain, his primary focus was ministry. After the mountain, Jesus journeyed toward the cross.
There is also a movement of space, time, and emotion. In the cycles and seasons of the calendar we have our ‘mountaintop’ experiences and our journeys ‘through the valley of the shadow of death.’ Our challenge in living the liturgical year is to be like Jesus. We are to know when to come down the mountain. (The contrast is to not be like Peter and try to stay on the mountain.)
Just some ‘Monday thoughts’ to get my week off to a start. What do you think?
Peace,
DWR
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 14:28:25
Why is it ok for Jesus to be able to communicate with the long departed but not us-maybe because he's Lord and we're not! Get real! GL in GA
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 15:45:45
Hi Everyone. I agree with Janice that this passage has to do with Jesus' beginning of the end - his journey to the cross. I also think that "putting on glory" is a way to interpret the transfiguration. This experiece was a "taste" of what would happen to Jesus when the Father "glorifies" him later. He has a greatly difficult path ahead of him, and I think of the transfiguation of a "pep talk" from those giants of the faith who have gone before - the Law (in Moses) and the Prophets (in Elijah).
This last couple of weeks I had the privelege of sitting with a dying woman, who was a "saintly" sort in her own right. As her death drew near, it seemed as though she left her body and went somewhere else for a while, and then she came back. It was as if her body was an empty room, that she would leave and when she returned she had a word, or a smile or even a glint in her eye that was "glorious." She taught me more "in her dying" than many learn in their "living."
Perhaps the transfiguration is the beginning of Jesus passing back into the "world" from which he came.
Just some early morning thoughts from Jude in Wash.
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 17:57:19
GL's comment "Get real!" that was made in response to a question about communicating with the dead concerns me. Over the past few weeks I've noticed a few postings that appear to disaparage questions and comments that others have made on this board. I believe that it's possible to disagree with each other without making comments like that. As pastors aren't we called to love one another and set the example? Souldoc
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 20:35:50
In the past I have preached about our own personal mountaintop experiences, such as retreat, church camps, etc - experiences we never want to end as Peter did not want this one to end. But perhaps this time around a different approach would be good. How do we or how can we experience God? In prayer, in worship, in the people we meet? Any suggestions? Philip in Ohio
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 21:28:24
What exactly is transfiguration??? What happened to Jesus? While I am not sure what theological wrap I want to put on the experience Jesus had, I contend that he had to be "transfigured" in order to go throught the ordeal of the Cross.
Micki
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 21:43:30
Philip in Ohio
I have done the same and it is a good use of the text. In a community where I once served, the Promise Keepers held one of there big rallies at the local arena. Some of the men who went to the rally became impatient with the pace of things at the church. Our normal Sunday liturgy could never compare to the energy and emotionalism of thousands gathered in a football stadium. I used this text to compare the Promise Keepers (Substitute Walk to Emmaus, Spiritual Retreat, Mission Trip, etc.) to the mountian top experience.
The sermon preached well, but there is a caution! Comparing the super event such as a Promise Keeper's rally to a mountian top has the affect of belittling the Sunday Morning liturgy as being less than Holy. Clearly this is NOT the case. Remember that Jesus came down from that mountian but his holiness never diminished.
For anyone struggling with issues surrounding the so-called "contemporary worship" services. THis text can also be a good dialogue piece.
It asks the question, what are the many ways we fully experience the Divine. Up to this point our Gospel readings have encounted the Divine through healing and liberating from illness, demons, and being outcast. Today we experience the divine as a transigured diety standing in the presence of Moses and Elijah. Next we will experience the divine on a journey to execution through capitol punishment.
Peace,
DWR
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 22:27:10
When God spoke, God said, "This is my beloved Son, listen to Him". What Jesus said was to come down off the mountain. If the transfiguration prepared Jesus for the journey to the cross, do not our own "mountaintop" worship experiences prepare us for the journey through the valley? When we traverse that valley with Jesus, we are led once again to another mountaintop experience when Jesus returns for us. I'm considering the sermon title "We Can't Stay" taking us from one mountaintop in the cloud to the clouds when Jesus comes again. I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions. I am a "new" preacher - a year and a half and could use some guidance. Peggy in the Everglades
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 22:44:38
It would be interesting to know what sort of inflection is really being put on that "Listen to Him!"
When Moses whent up Mount Siani to recieve the decalouge, people felt they needed something tangible to worship, hence the calf but also there was a significance in that God gave a message, the commandments to be passed on to the people.
For Elijah there was the still small voice, and yet people didn't understand or listen to the message.
Now we have Jesus, bringing the message of the cross, and Peter shows that it still isn't being listened to. He wants something tangible, something glorious.
Maybe it's just in my mind but I seem to hear frustration in the voice from the cloud.
The message that was proclaimed at baptism and Jesus' message of the cross are both confirmed
Sally in Aus
Date: 28 Feb 2000
Time: 23:25:58
I am wondering who this great event is for. Is it for Jesus? Elijah, Moses and Jesus seem to be having a private conversation out of the disciples' hearing so that what they said seems unimportant to us. Yet God the Father spoke directly to the disciples. That this "glorified" Jesus image is what the disciples were to come away with seems contrary to the Gospel of Mark which places the true nature of Christ as being seen most clearly in the Crucifixion and not in acts of power such as this.
Jeff in AR
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 00:06:37
Just found a fascinating website with information and interactive 360 deg. pictures of Mt. Tabor, which tradition locates as the site of the Transfiguration:
<http://www.mustardseed.net/html/ptabord.html>
Also a helpful hymn by Carl P. Daw, Jr., "We Have Come at Christ's Own Bidding," New Century Hymnal, #182 (don't know if it's in other hymnals).
A thought from Ched Myers: "In the transfiguration,...Jesus' new garment is symbolic of the martyr's white robes" (Myers refers to Rev. 3:5,18; 4:4; 6:11; 7:9,13) for intertextual allusions for the symbolism of white garments).
Doug in Riverside
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 02:11:50
JG in Wisconsin
Thought I'd thrown something in here on the "communication with the dead" issue. This really only has to do with Moses since Elijah is STILL not dead. Did Jesus speak with a dead Moses or bring him back from the past? Or did Jesus transport Himself and the discipes into the past? Or, since Jesus is God, is He is communication with the dead? These questions have no certain answers. However, it's clear here that Jesus was doing something very uniquely "Jesus;" something for only the Son of God. The admonition, "This is a professional...don't try this at home," fits here. Jesus is not being our "role model" here; He's being unique.
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 03:47:36
Back in her early days Amy Grant sang a song about loving to worship on the mountaintop. She talks about the need to come down from the mountaintop to our ministry and fellowship with the blind and the lame. The idea of worshiping with Jesus on the mountain is a good one. I was wondering about the fear the disciples experienced. They found themselves in this awesome presence. Don't we hope and anticipate that presence? As we come to the table of the Lord will we feel overwhelmed and fearful if we encounter the glory of Christ? LG in Mystic
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 04:00:24
I agree that this is a "Jesus" thing. Not necessary for us or anything I'd care to mess with.
The valley experienced between the Mt of transfiguration and Golgatha fascinates me. I hear the old hymn - "Jesus Walked that lonesome Valley"
I believe the transfiguration was important to the disciples. A well to draw from as they will see this man beaten and bloodied and dead.
I like the idea of Moses getting a repise after the disappointment on the way into the Promised Land. Have you ever looked at Moses obedience in death? I believe it reads something like - "And Moses lay down and died as the Lord commanded." Wow
Thanks for all of the thoughtful churning. The Sheepdog
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 13:58:19
I once preached this as "Transfigured, Transformed and Transfused." The theme was we need to see Jesus in a different way, not as a man but as alive and our Savior. We need to be transformed into new, better people and we need to be transfused with the power of the Holy Spirit. But the key is that montaintop experience of seeing Jesus differently than a mere man who lived 2000 years ago. revup
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 15:35:04
OK, there comes a time when we've got to come down off the mountain. What do we do when we come down from the mountain?
Oddly, the disciples were told not to tell anyone about their mountaintop experience, at least until after some "rising from the dead" business, which confused them.
What are we to do after coming down?
Pastor John
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 17:27:48
Transfigured: It seems to couple with being transformed (Romans 12:2) and transfigured from glory to glory (II Cor. 3:18). 4th stanza of "Mine Eyes Have Seen the glory" In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea, with a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me." Walt in Wilmington
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 17:57:10
Didn't Jesus promise his followers, all the things that I do and even greater things will you do? Surely Jesus promise was not excluding our transfigurations and our communion with spiritul beings that have transcended earthly bounds.
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 18:00:42
Pam, Leslie Weatherhead talks about such appearences in his classic book, The Christian Agnostic. Manzel
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 18:18:55
Haunted by a former pastor, I know that experience. I'm kidding.
These are sacred experiences to your parishoners and may we never belittle them or insult them by implying that they may be demonic.
Jesus was accused of using demonic power to accomplish great things to which he explained that a house divided against itself cannot long stand.
Recently I heard a scholar of Aromaic explaining that Jesus statement, "From a good tree comes good fruit and from an evil tree comes evil fruit" has a much different meaning in Aramaic. He explained that in Aramaic the word good also means ripe or fulfilled and the work "evil" means unripe. So from an unripe tree comes unripe fruit.
Could it be that "evil spirits" are like that? They are more accurately understood as unripe. Near death experiences (especially as studied by Drs. Ramond Moody and Elezabeth Kubler-Ross) are becoming a common subject in our culture. People want guidance from the church on this but often experience the church as either silent or condemning on such issues that are dear to their hearts.
Pam, may God renew your grace to simply be with your people in the mystery of these mystical experiences!
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 18:30:08
Golgatha and the Mt of Transfiguration? Oh yes, it is a direct relationship. This was Jesus confirmation. Just as in the Garden of Gethsemany Jesus agonized over his death, praying fervantly and an angel came and ministered unto him. So here those who have gone before him are confirming, strengthening, cummuning with and ralleying with Jesus as he sets his face toward Jerusalem.
The transfiguration is like a gateway between Heaven and earth. It is like Jesus (and freinds) are in both worlds and Jesus resurection body is visible. This is a preview of things to come, a preperation for living by faith during the darkest hour. It is the faith not just of believing in an intellectual promise but of experiencing "a foretaste of glory divine" as we sing in Blesed Assurance.
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 18:36:54
Peter spoke without knowing what to say. Its like one of those signs in the workplace "caution be sure to operate brain before engaging the mouth".
Intuitively, it seems that it would be both clearer and more powerful to say that Peter did not know what to say because "he was trembling". you know, mysterium tremendum, as Rudolf Otto would say.
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 18:40:52
I have enjoyed everyone's posts this week. I am struck by the realization that, over the past 20 years, I have preached about the transfiguration from most of the perspectives mentioned here. (except the communication with the dead angle) My obeservation is that the more I try to understand this passage, the less I know about it. Perhaps the mystery is the point -- there are some things that point us to more about Christ than we can know. I expect that the temptation my congregation and I face is not that we are reluctant to come down from the mountaintop, but that we are reluctant (or too skeptical) to climb up to it in the first place! That being said, I'm not sure what I will say on Sunday, but I do have a title: "More Than You Know." (Isn't it great how deadlines require us to write the titles before the sermons that go with them??) RevEv in Kansas
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 19:05:08
I appreciate all the posts this week and it helps to know that all of you are struggling with this passage too! I keep thinking as RevEv alluded to that we are probably less apt to climb up the mountain in the first place. Fear of what it may demand of us, fear of becoming too radical(in the eyes of others)and skeptical of the mystery of transformation in the first place. I also keep wondering why just three disciples were asked to accompany Jesus up the mountain. I can understand Peter in lieu of his resent confession of Jesus as Messiah, but why James and John? Does Jesus play favorites? Are all of us invited to the mountaintop? Do we have to do anything first? Just some questions...any help would be appreciated. Also any ideas for Childrens Sermon? Thanks. Teri-N-Tx
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 20:02:00
You wonder what the disciples thought walking down the mountain. By this point was it old hat for them! Throughout the gospels we do not hear much of the disciples reactions. Jesus feeds five thousand with enough food to feed you or me for one day. The disciples pick up 12 baskets full of leftovers. They see the blind restored to sight. The paralyzed begin to walk. Now they see the Elijah and Moses, talking to Jesus. Peter reacts in a natural manner. Jesus tells them to keep this quiet for awhile and they head down the mountain. What in the world must have been going through their head?
On a side note, how did they know it was Elijah and Moses? How did they know what Elijah and Moses looked like? Did Jesus tell them who there two figures were?
Early questions as a walk a mountain till Sunday.
- Rky Mtn High Pastor
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 23:10:21
Up and down, yes there is a rythm to this. Having both feet on the ground is a protrayal of being realistic. Being up in the air... lofty idealism. Jesus is "lifted up" just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness. There are plenty of ups and downs for the disciples. Jesus has a way of turning everything upside down, the first shall be last the last shall be first and whoever would be great amoung you must be servant of all. Unless a kernal of wheat falls to the ground and dies... Take up your cross and follow me.
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 23:23:55
A couple of notes as I'm beginning to look at this week's passage. On being "transformed," the word seems to refer to a metamorphasis - as if the "real" Jesus suddenly shines through the shell - the butterfly is revealed through the skin of the caterpillar.
In Mark's Gospel, the question is always posed concerning the disciples' understanding - they never do get it. It is only in the light of the resurrection that we begin to understand who Jesus is - and even then, Mark leaves us with a question as to whether the disciples really understand. The original ending of Mark seems to be a call for the disciples (them and us!) to believe, and to meet the Jesus who is going before us. Which has led some to call this a "misplaced resurrection account." I don't buy that, because of its importance in all of the Gospels; yet all of the Gospels cast in in that light (no pun intended).
I agree that the purpose of the visitation was to steel Jesus for the journey ahead, as a sign for the disciples that here is the one attested to by the law and the prophets, and to help the disciples also to deal with the journey to the cross.
In Mark's account, the word that is spoken by Jesus following the theophany is that they should be silent - again, because this account can only be understood in light of the resurrection. In other accounts, Jesus says nothing, but only leads them down to the valley where the other disciples, in their powerlessness, have been trying to deal with a father with an epileptic son. Without the transforming/ed presence of Jesus, they can do nothing.
At first, my reaction to the text is that this has so little to do with life as we know it. What mountaintop experience have any of us had that compare to this? Yes, we do neet some of these experiences. Certainly Peter has many cousins here who would like to build tabernacles on the mountaintop and just stay there. But life isn't lived there, is it?
For me, the question is how we take the transformed/ing presence of Jesus with us from the mountaintop? The experience, we pray, will enable the disciples to deal with the road ahead, until the metamorphasis is complete ("it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when he appears, we shall be like him").
Meanwhile, in light of the coming resurrection and the gift of the Spirit, we also hope for a transformation/metamorphasis to occur within us - that the light of Christ may also shine through us. Perhaps a good way to begin our lenten journey.
Gary in New Bern
Date: 29 Feb 2000
Time: 23:30:30
...ABOUT WHY PETER, JAMES AND JOHN, NOT MORE, WERE ON THE MOUNTAIN TOP...
Maybe others chose not to go, for various reasons. Not much time is focused on those that stayed behind. I can't imagine Jesus Jesus being selected with invitations. What is most curious for me is what was said before the trip up the mountain. Kairos
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 12:54:27
Into my mind comes the question of who will be to Jesus right hand and who to his Left? As I read about Moses (the Law) and Elijah (The prophet) I can see the Justice, wisdom and mercy of God. Grace and Love stand between these two men. Only an Almighty Loving God can show us truth and love. God transfigured all into the new hope. The age of grace was about to happen. Just a thought. MCM from PA
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 16:06:58
we keep talking about this scripture as a beginning of the Lenten Journey (and i appreciate all the comments) but i keep thinking that Lent doesn't begin until Wednesday - this is the Sunday of glory. Jesus in all his glory.i have to admit i am still pondering much and deciding on nothing.
blessings, rachel
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 17:05:38
Rachel has reminded us that Lent is next week. Yes, the church color this Sunday is still green, and this is the Ultimate Epiphany. Its kind of a model for all of our "ah ha" experiences with the Lord. So much of the story includes contrasts to this epiphany; Other disciples getting no where in their vain efforts to heal or deliver the boy who is aflicted, James and John wanting to be at Jesus right hand, Peter's comments which seem anything but enlightened...
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 17:13:35
Teri - on why only 3? Look at the Kings passage. Elisha wasn't invited to see the whirlwind at all, in fact he was discouraged from following Elijah. I've chosen my sermon title too, without knowing how it will end up; "The Return of the Whirlwind". Debra in NYC
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 17:28:33
"He...led them up a high mountain." After reading through all the thoughts that have been shared on this lesson, I have come up with a working title for a sermon "Pushed to Our Limits; Pulled to His Hights". It seems that we and our people are often pushed to our limits, if not by a challenging text, then by the experiences of life. We can either get gloomy about such stresses, or we can see them as opportunities for spiritual growth. I wonder how much those three disciples grumbled as they climbed to the top of that high mountain and asked "Why do we have to go up there?" I suspect that too often, us comfortable western Christians view our faith with a kind of fortress mentality. Is the reward of faith peace and order, or is it spiritual testing that leads to wisdom and growth in the eyes of the Lord? Seth from Toronto
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 17:55:58
My dear friends,
As I wanted to offer something toward the discussion this week, and as I am so fully engaged in other activities that I had no time to submit something "new," I offer an "old" story. Hope it might have some meaning for someone.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Clutter. Always the clutter, the clutter and dirty floors. No matter how much we seemed to clean, it never did any good. Oh, how I wished that for just one day, I might enter the building and find something other than the clutter. Yet no matter how I wished, nothing would change. Each day would be the same as the day before, discarded clothing on the floor, broken pieces of furniture sitting in the hallways, furniture which could not even be given away at weekend yard sales, furniture which somehow always found it's way to our building. Then, of course, there was always the odd bicycle with brown flecks of mud still stuck to the spokes, and the books, immense piles of books which no matter how often they were straightened, would always end up in great jumbled heaps.
And for those who served in this place, it was much the same. Each office was piled high with too many files representing too many lives. Each calendar was filled with too many appointments representing too many tragedies. Each hour was filled with too many pleas for help representing too many unfulfilled needs, too many used-up dreams, too many people on the edge - just one small crisis from the street, the street which represented death. Just one day, that's all I asked, just one day to enter the building and not be met with the massive clutter.
But then, why should the building look any different from the hundreds of folks who entered this place? No question about it, their lives were just as broken as this old building - cluttered with the sins of a society which viewed them as worthless, smeared with the grime of poverty, stained by the ugliness of never having enough … enough of anything, except heartache, hurt, and hopelessness. Why should it look any different?
Maybe that's why they came. This was their place. This was where they might find a glimmer of hope, a bit of food, perhaps a worn jacket or even on the rare occasion, a new skirt. Maybe that is why he came, always that possibility that he might find something of worth, some cast away item that he could use, cast away items for cast away people. Clutter.
His name was Jimmy. One could always tell he was in the building, for his broken voice could be clearly heard, croaking loudly, the coarse sound moving from one room to the next. Even from the reasonably protected sanctuary of my upper floor office, I could still hear him. "Croak, croak, crooooaaakkk!" His broken voice and his damaged mind. Whether his painful condition stemmed from an accident of birth, an early childhood fever, or maybe that God just got busy on other things and meant to get back to him, but never did … I didn't know. All I knew was that when Jimmy was around, one could never, never ignore him. "Croak, croak!" Clutter. And for whatever reason, perhaps I was just sick of pushing scraps of paper from one corner of the desk to the other, or perhaps it was guilt, for whatever reason I went downstairs to see Jimmy, to see what he and his servant care-taker were getting today. Was it a sweater or maybe some used toy that had caught his child-like middle-aged attention? Jimmy would always almost burst with excitement with some new-used toy.
When I arrived down-stairs, his care-taker was still in deep conversation with our medical social-worker, birds of a feather … angels … and Jimmy's croaking was now coming from our dirty clay parking lot. Clutter.
I went out to greet him and found him sitting in the passenger seat of the big red pickup, waiting happily and impatiently for his care-taker. "Ready to Go! Jimmy's Ready to Go --- CrrrroOOOOAAAKK!" I placed my hand through the open window and patted him on the shoulder, good old Jimmy. He turned his face toward mine and he looked - and he looked. He gazed so deeply into my eyes that I thought I would drown in that look. And we knew, for one moment we knew. We knew life and we knew one another. We knew the mystical place of the Holy which resided in the depths of these two broken lives. We knew the mystery of God. We knew the mystical incarnation of Christ. We knew.
Suddenly, that place, the place of dirt, the place of broken furniture, the place of clutter, disappeared and in it's place was a mountain, surrounded in the bright glow of heaven, with three beautiful figures standing on it's summit, saturated with the voice of God. For one instance, for one breath, for one moment not even long enough for a gasp, and then they were gone. And it was only me and Jimmy and the billowing dust.
Jimmy's care-taker arrived and they departed, cautiously exiting the parking lot and driving slowly down the street. I stood and I watched them until I could see them no longer. And I turned and went back inside.
Back to that place where others might find … clutter.
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 18:11:59
I decided to do a little "tongue-in-cheek" this Sunday - I'm calling my sermon, "The Shining."
Gary in New Bern
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 20:38:58
To DWR, Speaking of going up and coming down, be sure to look at the Chutes and Ladders materials on textweek.com. DaveinMD
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 21:06:44
Rachel, Not only is the last Sunday of Epiphany, but in some traditions it is also known as "Allueluia Sunday", because it focuses on the glory and the joy of Christ before beginning the sadder time of Lent. In this tradition, hymns and litanies contain the word "alleluia", and often the children participate in "burying the alleluia" - usually the word printed out, or other joyous symbols, that are then buried in the churchyard until Easter morning, when hymns once again are joyous and contain "alleluia". Bonnie
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 21:54:25
Thought I might attempt a narrative sermon for this passage. Let me know if you have suggestions.
Peter's long stride carried him easily and effortlessly up mountain path. Paying attention to the path and to those around him was another matter. James and John were at it again. They loved to argue and again they were carrying on about who was most important. Yes, the three of them had enjoyed a closeness with Jesus at many sacred moments and these sacred moments were absolutely intoxicating.
Perhaps that is why Peter was caught up in his own little world as they climbed Mt. Tabor. He was trying to understand the things that had just happened and how it was that again spectacular opportunities had come straight to him and he had fumbled.
Just days ago he had been on the verge of greatness. Jesus was teaching as always and was pressing the disciples with his questions. These questions always made them think. It was like a game and always fun to guess where Jesus was leading their minds. He had asked, "who do people say that I am". There were many good answers. Jesus was not just their rabbi but one that so many were recognizing as one who taught with authority.
It had seemed clear for months now that people thought Jesus was the beheaded Baptist now come back to lead the common people. Other rumors on the grape vine were that Jesus was really the great Elijah who had been taken to heaven on a chariot of fire and now returned to give miraculous leadership to Israel in this time of Roman oppression. Peter grinned as he thought about how wonderful it was that Jesus had let them share openly with him these things that were on everyone's minds. Then lightning struck again. Jesus asked the 64 million dollar question, "who do you say that I am"?
For one glorious moment Peter was sure he had landed the most colossal answer of all. Never was there a greater answer in all of history. Alex Tribeck and Regis Filbin, take a back seat, Peter had the answer of the eon and he was certain, yes final answer, "you are the Christ, the very son of God". And indeed it was like there were bells and whistles. Jesus himself, looked straight into Peter's hairy sunburned face and said, "Right! Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah for no body told you this answer, you knew it in your inner being. Blessed are you for this is the faith that is the solid rock sufficient to be the foundation upon which we can build."
It was like Peter could hear angels whispering his name and singing praises of this great blessing. "You are the seed that will grow a new sprout, a star that will shine in the night" Peter's mind had raced with images of whole apple orchards in one seed and butterflies in cocoons waiting to be free. Yes, his mind tripped out and like Joseph's ancient dream he could see the moon and the stars bowing before him. He thought he heard Jesus say, " to you I give the keys to the kingdom and all authority on heaven and earth shall be yours and whatever you say shall be so". But the very next moment Jesus was saying something about how when they got to Jerusalem, he would be rejected by the Temple leaders and but to a shameful death.
So Peter played his trump card. He spoke with all this authority he had just been granted. He spoke with all confidence and assurance, "Jesus, never fear, that shall never happen, it is a cosmic impossibility for you are the messiah and we will never let that happen".
It was a week later and Peter was half way up Mt. Tabor, still trying to figure out just how his bubble had burst. One moment he was giving that great affirmation that Jesus was indeed the Messiah and speaking with all the authority he could imagine and suddenly Jesus was rebuking him as though he was the very mouthpiece of evil itself. Just how did this happen? Surely no one in history had put their foot in their mouth at a worse moment. Peter had managed to do this a dozen times. He couldn't have scored more bloopers if he had been trying but he was trying so hard to say the right things. Even Jesus said he had the faith to move mountains so how could he be so close and get things so wrong?
Suddenly a hand grasp his wrist and Peter looked up to see Jesus smiling at him; radiating confidence and enjoying this climb that was at this point a very narrow passage along the side of a cliff. Where was Peter's mind? He could not even remember looking where he was stepping for quite some time. He smiled back at Jesus a put his big feet carefully next to the ledge and moving toward Jesus soon everything was fine.
Peter's mind was swimming again in an ocean of wonderful memories of Jesus. He could feel Jesus hands on his wrist, this time holding him up as he had started to sink. It was another one of those moments. He had been so close to greatness so close to the universe just opening up to him. Peter and his home boys had been in the fishing boats when they had spotted someone walking right across the Galilean Sea. Ok someone else had shouted out the right answer then, "Its Jesus" but Peter out did him, calling out. Lord if its really you, bid me to come to you. Leaping out of the boat, Peter was actually walking on water. It was just like flying and for a moment he knew anything was possible. Then his ego kicked in, "I am walking on water like Jesus" Peter thought. Then the cold waves of reality washed over him. Something inside him confessed, I am mere mortal, so Peter screamed, "Oh God, help me" As the cold waves began to devour him, Jesus hand was once again ahold of him and soon they were both walking on the water back to the boat. At that moment when anyone else would have said, "why did you do such a crazy thing and jump into the sea?" That magnetic smile of Jesus was drawing him foreword asking for more, challenging him to greater adventure and Jesus soft voice pleaded with him, "why did you doubt"?
Peter had always been so good at taking control. His strength and bold assertiveness were unrivaled among the fisherman of Capernaum but Jesus was like a moving target, more than that Jesus was always surprising, even magical.
James and John were now gasping for breath and Jesus was several stones throws ahead of them. It was another opportunity for Peter to show off. So he put his arms across the shoulders of James and John, winked at them and swept them along in his great stride. He was just getting started. He had been on automatic pilot all morning and now as they were nearing the top of Mt Tabor, the excitement was filling the cool crisp air. Peter was ready. This was going to be great.
It was no surprise when Jesus explained that they had come to this spot to pray. Jesus was always finding a time and place that became sacred with his prayers. From this vantage point they could see the luscious fertile Valley of Jezreel on the west, rooftops from homes in Nazareth near by and part of the harp shaped sea of Galilee to the east and south east. They could even see a snow cap on top of Mt Herman to the North east. Jesus spoke of preparation for the foreboding things ahead in Jerusalem but as usual it made no sense because there was a joy and exuberance in Jesus face. Jesus could be such a kid at times. It was like he was being energized for a big game, some extraordinary challenge.
Peter realized there was a lump in his throat. Jesus was nervous! Jesus really was nervous! Mr. Kool walk on water, Prince serenity himself was nervous. Peter had no frame of reference. He looked at James and John. They slapped each other on the shoulders and gave each other high fives like they were on top of the world and ready for anything. Peter looked questioningly at John and gestured with a head and shoulder toward Jesus as if to say, "wake up man don't you see Jesus is actually nervous". John walked over to Jesus and gave him a big hug without saying a word. Peter thought, "why didn't I think of that".
Jesus began his prayers by praising God as creator of all the beauty before them, then Peter recognized one Psalm after another as Jesus was sort of chanting, sort of singing softly but very joyfully. Peter, James and John were in rhythm bowing, repeating phrases and saying amen. They were feeling a great energy and the vista around them grew more beautiful each moment. It was as if they were seeing the fertile Jezreel valley form all time periods at once with battles going on, crops being harvested and great prophets like Elijah doing miracles and proving victorious over all the rival cults. It was as if the Roman and Egyptian solders who had fought and died at the wast edge of the valley, at Megeddo were alive again and singing to the hymn of the universe.
It was as if this was the bridge tying together all the distant corners of the world. It was as if every human ordeal was as temporary as a single breath. It was as if each breath they took was part of one ocean and each drop of it had been life to each individual that had ever lived. Peter was feeling this truth, not in his intellect but in his heart.
Suddenly his awareness focused on something immediate. Peter could see that James and John saw it too. Jesus whole body was radiant. Even his cloths seemed to glow. It was like the sun itself was shining from inside of Jesus. Jesus was no object, like he was too much to be contained by a body. Peter though, "Jesus is pure light, no he is more. Jesus is like pure dialogue that is heart to heart" So Peter chose to focus on the dialogue. It became clear. Jesus was speaking to Moses and Elijah. Again, no flesh and blood told him the names of these hosts but Peter knew, they were the embodiments of the Law and the Prophets.
Moses and Elijah, right there talking to Jesus, his Jesus. Peter was more than proud. He was walking on air. Something inside him just had to shout. He would shout from the mountain top and his voice would echo to the corners of the earth. His mind was racing and he could feel the sound being pushed up from his diaphragm, vibrating the low base of his vocal cords, tickeling his tongue and being shaped and caressed by his lips. Peter knew they were words of praise as his ears recognized his own words, "Lord this is so good and right. It is so kool to be here with you and we will serve you.. " Peter heard the words coming out of his mouth and he knew he was starting to stumble but he could not stop blabbering. He heard words coming out of his own mouth saying, Lord we want to honor and serve you.... Let us build 3 tabernacles, one for you, one for Moses and One for Elijah".
Suddenly things got hazy; not that the moment had ended. It was still a luminous moment but it was like there was this luminous cloud around Jesus, Moses and Elijah . Time stood still. An eternity may have passed and the dialogue of great souls may have encompassed every subject but only one thing resonated in their minds as the clear message to Peter, James, and John. They knew beyond any shadow of doubt that God had spoken directly to them, affirming Jesus saying, "This is my beloved Son. Listen to Him".
It was as if there were fine tuning controls on their minds. The focus became razor sharp. There was only one subject in the world. Nothing and no one else existed that moment except Jesus. Jesus was everything.
The disciples were totally oblivious to their journey back down the mountain except for one thing. Sometime, somewhere on the way down, some words of Jesus had conveyed to them that this was totally beyond mention until after the events that were about to happen in Jerusalem. Then they were back in a world that seemed very flat and very gray and their own dear friends seemed incredibly stupid.
Everything was so barbaric. A father had brought his afflicted son to the other disciples for healing. They acted as if some wild and cantankerous beast had inhabited the boy's body and they in their primitive way were trying incantations and all manor of ritualistic means of scaring away some evil spirit. The boy merely convulsed all the more. So it was up to Jesus who in one graceful gentle movement connected both to the Father in Heaven and to the afflicted son. The calmness that came over the boy was so dramatic that at first people thought he was dead. The boy was whole and the disciples were baffled. Jesus shook his head and shoulders as if to reacclimatize to this gray, flat world full of people who's collective knowledge was but a drop in the ocean.
Jesus gave them a simple answer, "this kind can only be cured through prayer". This time Peter said nothing. His mind was ahead of his mouth. Like an inside joke, Peter got it and gracefully smiled. He knew, "Yes, prayer is the key to everything, not as an incantation of right words but as dialogue. It is in our communion with God that all things are possible. It is Jesus who is the way to this, this... LIFE. This luminous, glorious life is what happens when God's energy is flowing through us. We can never stake a claim to its sacred power. It will always be a mystery to us but we have one clue; it is Jesus." Peter smiled thinking, " many revelations took place on that mountain and almost all of them were way over my head but one of them is a treasure for me to keep and to share. I have the privilege of telling the world what God said, "This is my beloved son, listen to him!" ...Manzel
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 22:10:04
In light of the shootings in our country this week, as well as the controversial role religion is suddenly playing in the GOP campaign, I am more convinced that ever that we need to experience the radical power of God in Jesus Christ. We need to witness the transfigured Jesus in our midst... a Jesus who is not conformed to the role society might give him... but a Jesus who is the embodiment of the power of God. My sermon title: "Will the Real Jesus Please Step Forward"
Jerry in College Station
Date: 01 Mar 2000
Time: 23:43:37
Think of the disciples, Peter, James and John, who shared with Jesus this great moment of vision and insight and inspiration ... They’d been with Jesus for a year or so. They’d heard him teach, seen him heal and feed people, and they so often failed to understand. Here, now, on the top of a mountain, they’re still bemused. The familiar friend they’d known all this time: the man they’d seen every day; the man they’d lived with, talked with, walked with – now transformed. They saw him in a profoundly different light. They had a glimpse of Jesus as he truly was, beyond the ordinary, the familiar, the mundane. It was still Jesus they saw, but they perceived more – though they still didn’t really understand.
The story of the transfiguration and the recent death of Charles Schultz, reminds me of a delightful Peanuts cartoon. Charlie Brown, Linus and Lucy are lying on the grass, looking up at the sky. Lucy says, "If you use your imagination, you see lots of things in cloud formations. What do you see, Linus?" "Well", says Linus, "those clouds up there look like the map of British Honduras on the Caribbean. That cloud there looks a little like the profile of Thomas Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor … and that group gives one the impression of the stoning of Stephen – there’s the apostle Paul standing on one side ..." Lucy says, "Mm. Very good. And what do you see Charlie Brown?". Charlie pauses and then says, "Well, I was going to say I see a duckie and a horsie, but I changed my mind."
The disciples never quite understood, not even now. In the cloud around them, they saw duckies and horses – but at least they saw something. They began, slowly, to realise that Jesus was more than just another man. What they saw was the same, yet different – a glory out of this world – a new perception. Thank God for moments of insight, new visions, fresh perceptions – the God who constantly challenges us by saying, "Look at it this way ..."
Thank you for this brilliant site.
Stuart – Wolverhampton (UK)
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 00:01:19
Thanks Stuart, for reminding me of one of my favorite Charles Schulz cartoons. Most days I do well to see duckies and horsies. I located a great sermon on this text by the oh-so-prolific Will Wilmon. Sorry I don't have the URL here at home- it is on the Duke Chapel website, I think. Willmon's premise is that the transfiguration was for Jesus(and the disciples) a glimpse of the future that informs the present. In other words (mine, not his), the glimpse of the glory of the resurrected Christ made bearable the weight of the cross. Further, Willmon suggests that we might use our glimpses of the future (which is ours through Christ) to inform our present faithful action. This gets me closer to practical application for the congregation than anything else I have seen.
RevEv in Kansas
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 00:17:35
Another thought on why Jesus brought only three of the disciples with him to the mountaintop: references in Deut and Matt and elsewhere about the need for "two or three witnesses" to give valid testimony (Deut 19:15: "Only on the evidence of two or three witnesses shall a charge be sustained." Matt 18:16: "16 But if you are not listened to, take one or two others along with you, so that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses." Even though Jesus mandated silence on the part of the three witnesses until after the resurrection, they could give testimony to their experience in the post-resurrection community, and because there were three of them, their testimony would be 'confirmed.'
Doug in Riverside
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 02:02:57
This is my first time posting on this site, but I want to thank everyone who participates . . . this is a tremendous resource. Just some musings: the two mountains (transfiguration and crucifixtion) seem important to consider--not so much the geography (in the ancient world mountains were considered closer to God)--but the wider implications. We live on this side of the cross; we know Easter. The three did not . . . this is their glimpse of the Easter glory that has been revealed to (and transforms)us through the Word and the Spirit (2 Cor). The entire season of Epiphany was about following Jesus . . . so where does Jesus go? Down the mountain! Follow me . . . perhaps we still have to ask ourselves where Jesus is calling us to follow . . . clearly, it is to that other mountain . . . "those who lose their lives . . . " "This is my Son, the beloved . . . listen to him . . ." This text sets us in motion through the wilderness of Lent, yes, but also is instructive as to where it is we might hope to find Jesus in our midst --not on the mountain of glory, rather among the poor and all who suffer and die and live . . .
J in NJ
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 03:42:18
Just thinking: As I read this mountaintop passage, I couldn't help but think of Moses and Elijah's mountaintop experiences.
If we are to have the mountaintop experiences, we must first climb the mountain. Still trying to develop that thought.
Also, it's nice to know that when we do come down from the mountain, we don't have to keep silent. We are called to tell the Good News to everyone! MD in IL
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 03:45:03
Just thinking: As I read this mountaintop passage, I couldn't help but think of Moses and Elijah's mountaintop experiences.
If we are to have the mountaintop experiences, we must first climb the mountain. Still trying to develop that thought.
Also, it's nice to know that when we do come down from the mountain, we don't have to keep silent. We are called to tell the Good News to everyone! MD in IL
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 12:07:54
March 2nd 2000 9.25pm Thanks for the inforative browsing I've recently discovered. It seems important to remember that this gospel was written post resurrection and whether or not it is a misplaced resurrection account (as has been suggested) it speaks of another 'realm'. This event is central to Mark's account - the turning point between the Galilean ministry and the events in Jerusalem. Just as God announced his Beloved Son at his baptism as Jesus' ministry was to begin, we are now reminded of this in relation to Jesus' passion. Let's not forget that a characteristic of Mark is the disciples' failure to understand exactly who Jesus is - or is Mark really saying this of the readers? From the top of Mt Tabor it is possible (on a clear day) to see from Galilee to Jerusalem - today one accomplishes this by using the north and south viewing platforms. This mountain is a pertinent place for the transfiguration to take place. Pam Australia
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 12:52:25
The intreging question that keeps running in my mind is, Why did Jesus go all the way to the top of Mt.Hermon to do this? It is about 120 miles from the populus of Jerusalem, 1900 feet above the Mediteranian Sea, and snow covered. Jesus had to know why he took them all the way up there. Why didn't Jesus do this during the passover? Or even in a populated city? Why not use this event to win souls? Why not a t. every other day?
Answer:Christ calles His church together by relationships that carry the message of the cross. The transfiguration gives us a hope and an expectation of what we will become some day, that causes us to serve people and build relationships with people for Him.
But how does that fit into a sermon theme? I don't know. RevRon
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 13:22:55
I think the Transfiguration served to inform the disciples even further that they "weren't in Kansas anymore" that this Jesus whom they'd been following is indeed the Son of God. And it is in this context that I'm forced into this week's hermeneutical struggle. I try to boil the passages from which I preach down to the question: "So what's this have to do with me?" What does it mean to me that Jesus is the Son of God? What difference does He make in today's world, in my life?
John near Pitts.
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 17:05:08
Some great postings, everybody! Your narrative gave me some additional perspectives, Manzel. It seems to me that this "knowledge" piece (see the epistle lesson) is where the gospel is leading me. I find myself wondering about the 6-day delay(?). With this event occurring, it seems, 6 days after the incident where Jesus accused Peter of being Satan and telling him to hide his face. Someone had raised the question about who the transfiguration was for. Any thoughts?
Janice, Ks
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 17:20:39
One emphasis in preaching on this passage can be the image of going up to the mountain, having a great experience, and coming down to serve. I might try to relate Peter's fear on the mountain to his fear at the resurrection in Mark. We can't keep a mountaintop experience to ourselves--ministering to the world is what Jesus calls us to do. He told the disciples not to tell anyone about what they saw, but he didn't tell them to keep to themselves. Maybe the experience of the transfiguration was meant to be a well from which would spring up the fruit of action resulting from reflection. Craig in Maine
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 17:21:35
One emphasis in preaching on this passage can be the image of going up to the mountain, having a great experience, and coming down to serve. I might try to relate Peter's fear on the mountain to his fear at the resurrection in Mark. We can't keep a mountaintop experience to ourselves--ministering to the world is what Jesus calls us to do. He told the disciples not to tell anyone about what they saw, but he didn't tell them to keep to themselves. Maybe the experience of the transfiguration was meant to be a well from which would spring up the fruit of action resulting from reflection. Craig in Maine
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 20:26:58
Has anyone thought of this passage as part of a kind of "chiasm?" Transfiguration (light, glory) leads us to and through the dark tunnel of Lent with the crucifixion as the central "cross point." We move through the darkness of doubt for a time, and then we see the light at the other end of the tunnel, which is the resurrection (light, glory, victory!). I have entitled my sermon, "The Light at Both Ends of the Tunnel." Also, the chiasm is represented by the Greek letter, "X" which stands for Christ. Our own (authentic) "X" file story! Revmar in Kansas
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 22:32:31
Around the topic of Fear and the disciples. Matthew has the event described as the disiciples falling to their knees, and covering their heads, out of fear.
We find certain things in our lives called, "Acts of God," that instill this kind of fear in us. Why? Because it was a fear for their life. Much like one gets trapped in tornadoe, that same fear was there for the three on the mountain. They are in the presence of God, of for them that meant death. That is what I call fear. And what happens in Matthew is that Jesus touches them and lifts them to their feet.
Jesus here is found alone, after Moses and Elijah vanish. Fullfillment of God's promise. The Law and the prophets have been completed.
And the fear that the Disicples feel.. fear for their lives is replaced with the knowledge that in this God we find life.
Pastor John in Oregon
Date: 02 Mar 2000
Time: 23:03:05
"Six days later..." or on the seventh day. What happens on the seventh day? WORSHIP! Like most mountaintop experiences, this is a moment of worship. We often try to get the point of the text, to find that relevant meaning for our lives.
Maybe this week there is no relevant meaning except this: Worship God! Experience God's presence! Don't do it with expectations, don't do it because I need enlightenment this week or because I need to learn something this week. Simply worship God because God is. Why do we climb a mountain? because God is there (no other reason needed).
Jeff in AR
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 00:05:51
Have any of you ever heard a song called "The Dust on Momma's Bible"? I think that's the name of it. I don't know who it's by, but I am trying to find out. I would like to use it for a funeral sometime. Thanks for any help you can give me. Great site!
Revival
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 00:27:47
I couldn't help but to remeber another sermon as I read all of your response about "mountaintop experiences." Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I've been To the Mountaintop" keeps resonating in my mind. I need to go back and reread it and see how it speaks and the significance of that being his last sermon. How has our society been "changed" by that? Godpeed, Tim in NC
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 00:52:15
what i wrote the other day didn't show up - this is a test.
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 02:00:30
Friends,
I find it fascinating how Mark and Matthew use the ancient emphasis on the high mountain to underscore who Jesus is. Moses climbed the mountain, and encountered God. Jesus climbed the mountain, and is revealed as the Son of God. I wonder if the disciples were offered this glimpse of the greater reality of who Jesus is, in order to strengthen THEM for the events in Jerusalem. I keep seeing another, subtler parallel: on the Mount of Transfiguration a veil of perception is lifted and the mortals see Jesus in his true glory. On Calvary, the veil of the temple is split, and even a gentile can see Jesus' divinity.
Not perfect parallels/analogies, to be sure. I just like the paradox that even at the darkest, lowest point of Holy Week, the Lord is still "lifted high." (I hope you'll forgive me for jumping to John for yet another example.)
For other visual learners, you might be interested in what we're doing this Sunday. We use a large, rough wooden cross during various seasons of the year. It hasn't been in the sanctuary since the beginning of Advent. However, we'll bring it back in this Sunday, draped completely with a shimmering bright white drape, so that we get a visual cue about the glory of Christ obscuring the sorrow of the cross. This may not be all that apparent until the next Sunday, however, when a much smaller purple drape is hung over the arms only. (We drape it and the communion table in black at the end of Passion Sunday worship, then the white drape is hung over the arms for Easter.)
Just some thoughts...y'all have helped me a lot with the discussion, and I appreciate it.
Peace,
Mary in TX
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 03:54:13
A couple of semi-focused thoughts late intothe week
GLORY: Most often related to light, shining light. Moses glowed from the reflection of God's backside on Mt Sinai. Paul was blinded on his way to Damascus by the brilliance of Jesus' appearance. There is no need for sun or moon in the New Jerusalem because of the light from the lamb. The brightness of the transfiguration is a glimpse of the glory the Father gives to Jesus post cross. (Recall that people didn't always recognize Jesus (on the road to Emmaus) after his resurrection, thus being "transfigured?")
BOOTHS: As in festival of booths. Not a place to worship, but a place to reside. The people lived in booths (tents) in the field during harvest time. I think Peter was trying to capture the glory and bottle it so that he could always return to it when he needed. But it is hard to follow Jesus if you have confined him to a pup tent on the side of a mountain. How do we try to control God's appearances in our lives and how does "The Voice" reprimand us and remind us to listen (and follow)?
Jonesy
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 03:54:35
A couple of semi-focused thoughts late intothe week
GLORY: Most often related to light, shining light. Moses glowed from the reflection of God's backside on Mt Sinai. Paul was blinded on his way to Damascus by the brilliance of Jesus' appearance. There is no need for sun or moon in the New Jerusalem because of the light from the lamb. The brightness of the transfiguration is a glimpse of the glory the Father gives to Jesus post cross. (Recall that people didn't always recognize Jesus (on the road to Emmaus) after his resurrection, thus being "transfigured?")
BOOTHS: As in festival of booths. Not a place to worship, but a place to reside. The people lived in booths (tents) in the field during harvest time. I think Peter was trying to capture the glory and bottle it so that he could always return to it when he needed. But it is hard to follow Jesus if you have confined him to a pup tent on the side of a mountain. How do we try to control God's appearances in our lives and how does "The Voice" reprimand us and remind us to listen (and follow)?
Jonesy
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 04:03:01
Thank you all for a great forum. I am inclined to lean (?)toward an emphasis on the end of Epiphany rather than beginnng of Lent. Ash Wednesday will certainly take care of that. I am still struggling with the power of mountaintop event and how we translate that into congregational experience. I know most of us have what we feel are mountaintop experiences. (I will never forget the divine power I felt when our first child was born and we were witness to the life-giving breath of God tears and laughter came blended together - its been 24 years and the memory is still fresh.)Is the Mount of Transfiguration the life-giving breath of God breathed into the nostrils of Peter, James and John? Are we to capture that in worship this Sunday of the Transfiguration (even the name is awesome). I remember as a young acolyte changing the hymnboard slide for this Sunday and wondering whether it would even fit!? Long gone are Quinquagesima, Septugesima and the rest - but Transfiguration - awesome! I hope that the Spirit will guide me into capturing the tremendous power of this end of Epiphany. Thanks for all your reminders, nudges and questions. Awesome!! T in NC (USA)
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 05:48:19
G'day and thankyou all for the discussions this week. I've found it all particularly helpful.
Just in case you're interested, I'm adopting the title "Seeing Differently"
Peter James and John saw something on that mountain that no-one had seen before or since and I am suggesting that they could not help but see things differently from then on. And although we did not personally witness the transfiguration, as a result of our encounter with the risen Christ - we also see things differently.
In our world, our lives our relationships, our circumstances we too can see the glory of Christ - if only we would look. more carefully.
Singer, Allan Caswell has a song called "Different Eyes" - It is about his surrender to Christ and in the refrain he sings, "Its the same old world I'm looking at, through a pair of different eyes"
And finally my friends, - I came across a neat story that you might find helpful:
Grace and peace to you all Geoff in Oz **************************************************
The only survivor of a shipwreck washed up on a small uninhabited island. He cried out to God to save him, and every day he scanned the horizon for help, but none seemed forthcoming. Exhausted, he eventually managed to build a rough hut and put his few possessions in it. But then one day, after hunting for food, he arrived home to find his little hut in flames, the smoke rolling up to the sky. The worst had happened; he was stung with grief. Early the next day, though, a ship drew near the island and rescued him. "How did you know I was here?" he asked the crew. "We saw your smoke signal," they replied. Though it may not seem so flow, your present difficulty may be instrumental to your future happiness.
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 14:15:09
As I get closer to the task of preaching, I found the striking contrasts in the OT lesson and the Gospel. One bids disciple to stay, Jesus bids disciple to follow him. Elisha KNOWS what is about to happen. Jesus' band of three is CLUELESS. One is a vision of spectacular action (horses, chariot), the other brightness and a conversation. One is taken away who spoke of God. Jesus remains and God speaks of Him. Elisha sees a whirlwind take Elijah and is left alone. Peter, James, and John are enveloped in a cloud and are left with Jesus only. Elisha grieves. The disciples wonder and ponder. ***Perhaps the point(s)of the sermon should center on God's action in our lives and how, as both the OT and Gospel describe, it can happen expectedly and unexpectedly; it may be spectacular or quiet; it show us both our humanity and the hope of heaven. - Army Chaplain E
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 15:44:59
In my Interpreter's Bible concerning the transfiguration story it says "The experience gave them a great memory to which they could return." This ties in too well with something I received via email........
In *Perspectives: A Journal Of Reformed Thought* (December, 1999; p. 3), Timothy L. Brown writes of telephoning a nursing home, to find out what they call the therapists who work with Alzheimer's patients. He found they are called "MLAs" - medical shorthand for "Memory Loss Assistants."
What do MLAs do, he wanted to know? They talk to the patients, read them books, take them through patterning exercises. Brown then went on to ask what the MLAs talk to the patients about.
"We tell them their names," the floor nurse explained, over the phone. "We remind them of the names of their family members, and if possible we show them pictures. And then we rehearse, as far as we are able, over and over again, significant events that have happened in their past. We do whatever we can to give them a measure of confidence and hope."
Brown reflects: "So that's what we are, as pastors assigned to walk the liturgical trail Sunday after Sunday. We are Memory Loss Assistants. With grace offerings of hymn and prayer, table, font, scroll and blessing, we remind the people of God who they are, whose they are, and what great things have happened in their wilderness wanderings past, so that they might have confidence and hope in a promised land future."
Peace,
miamisburg mike (in ohio)
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 16:34:45
The transfigured awareness of the disciples suggests a new understanding of Jesus. It is only in solitude and silence that we hear God speak to us in the dark depths of our being. To be illumined by his presence is to wait for him on the mountain. This new awareness prepares us for the valley and the journey to Jerusalem.
tom in ga
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 16:38:49
Hey everybody--great ideas. I continue to be amazed week to week as to the power of all your ideas. I never start my sermon on Friday without checking in. Some thoughts--if we look at both the Markan and King's passage they portray literally a big God, a BIG God! One of my concerns as I pastor to my folks and struggle with faith myself is that we too often shrink God, that is make God smaller than God really is; we domesticize God to make God safe, palatable, non-threatening, homogenous, even wimpy. The God portrayed in both of these epiphanies is powerful, unpredictable, directive(LISTEN TO HIM!) and awe-inspiring. Thoughts--how are we humans guilty of domesticizing our ineffable God?
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 16:40:41
PS--for last note forgot to sign it! --UCC from Rhode Island
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 18:23:21
Friends,
Part of our struggle with this text is that the lectionary lifts it from its context, so that it is not anchored in what had transpired before. I understand the reasoning behind this, in that what follows are the Lenten disciplines of the "walk of the cross," but that shouldn't prevent us from doing some pre-Lenten preparation for this Sunday. The passage begins: "Six days later ..." Six days after what? In the Synoptic gospels, it is six days after Peter's confession ("You are the Christ"), Jesus' warning ("The Son of Man must suffer many things"), Peter's protest, Jesus' rebuke of Peter ("Get thee behind me Satan!"), and Jesus' call to true discipleship ("If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me"). The transfiguration on the mountaintop follows these events to help remind the disciples that they do not know the full extent of the consequences that follow once one confesses Jesus as Lord and begins to take up that cross. Jesus refuses to conform to anyone's image of who he ought to be. And that "crosswalk" can lead you into some very hard to explain experiences that only later will make sense. Don't make little shrines along the way, like Peter wanted to do. Just keep following the Lord, and it will later become clear to you. A real Faith vs. Reason case study. Anselm said, "I believe in order to understand." This is an illustration of faith having to uphold us while the mind is mystified.
AO in PO
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 18:36:23
Stuart, thanks for the Peanuts cartoon. It works well.
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 19:43:19
Hi all.
I've been seeing, in your contibutions, a few references to "seeing things differently." I like the idea, but let's not read too much into this story.
The way Mark presents his story, the disciples NEVER "get it." They don't look back on this mountain-top when they are confronted by the cross; they run away and hide, hanging on the the fear that several of you mention.
I think that Mark is trying to help US see things differently, by portraying the disciples as blind, self-centered clods, who can't and won't see things differently. They probably weren't as blind as all that, but maybe we need to take Mark's presentation of the story as our story this year (and not use a compiled story from all 3 synoptics), and let it shake us up, and challenge us, so we can be be left in our turn with "only Jesus."
Rick in Canada, eh?
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 20:05:44
tom in ga -
I agree with your contributions, but could you tell me how you see "aloneness" from this passage? Both in your first and last contributions this week, I hear you saying that the transfiguration was the result of solitude and prayer - yet the disciples were together with Jesus (at least three of them). I agree that if we "listen" to Jesus, that requires silence on our part - but what about the solitude? Anyway, thank you for your contributions - it's funny how I feel like I know many of the contributors even though we meet only here...
This is a powerful scripture- I hope the sermon can do it justice.
Jude in Wash
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 22:36:55
Here's an idea I've been working on: Only Peter, James and John saw the Transfiguration. Were the other disciples deprived?
None of the disciples had electricity or central heating or running water. Were they deprived?
Elijah was so great and holy that only he and Enoch and Jesus were taken up bodily into heaven. Only three out of all the great people in the Bible. Were the others deprived?
Elisha bitterly resisted Elijah's leaving. He would be left alone without his mentor, friend, and spiritual father. But after Elijah left, was Elisha deprived?
When someone tells you they had an out-of-body experience, or they were so overcome by the Holy Spirit that they spoke in tongues, do you feel deprived? I don't. St. Paul says in the strongest possible terms that the Holy Spirit gives his gifts in diverse ways to diverse people, according to their need, and according to God's plans for them. None of us is deprived.
Even if we are terminally ill, and dying, if we ask God, he will give us the gifts and the strength we need to travel through this final stage of earthly life. We won't be deprived.
Some people hate those who are different from them because unconsciously they perceive that differentness as a criticism of themselves. Their self-esteem is so low that they see everything around them as a potential enemy, anything good as a indictment of them, and they focus, like tracking radar, on anything that might be evidence that they are inferior, evidence of their low self-image. And of course, they find it, because there are always other people who appear more blessed, other situations that appear more pleasant than the one we're in, other fields beyond our fence where the grass appears greener.
Date: 03 Mar 2000
Time: 23:31:08
Jude in Wash,
the three disciples were "alone" with Jesus on the mount. They had withdrawn to pray ... The transfiguration is an experience of deep prayer - "... listen to him." Peter did not wish the experience to end! We are very much like Peter. The mountaintop transforms our understand of who Jesus is, we find ourselves drawn into an intimate relationship with the ALL ... we don't want this to end .. returning to the valley is scarey for all .. Jesus faces his destiny, the disciples (not yet know) they face an uncertain future."
tom in ga
Date: 04 Mar 2000
Time: 00:08:04
I have been a chaplain to people who are chronically ill for over 10 years, along with numerous emergency room experiences while in Clinical pastoral education for five quarters. I have accompanied hundreds of people in the last months, days, hours of their lives. It is common for a dying person to "see" someone they love from the other side during this time. For some of them it is Jesus, for others it is a dead loved one. I no longer question the event, I allow it to reside in the mystery of God. In somes ways, it is the true experience of God being with us always and knowing who the loving person we need to have with us will be and "sending" that person to comfort and walk us over to the other side. Pam, thank you for sharing your experience. Deacon Mary in Seattle
Date: 04 Mar 2000
Time: 04:54:42
I have been preaching from our Sunday School lessons for the last two quarters. I'm not sure what I'm doing about Lent, but did not feel the Transfiguration could be ignored (even though I'd like to). Someone asked about a children's sermon. One commentary I read likened the transfiguration to a hologram. You see, for an instance, the other, different figure. "For a brief moment, the disciples glimpse the truth as divine glory shines through the veil of suffering. It foreshadows the time when God will gloriously enthrone Jesus after the degradation on the cross. This white flash of the splendor to come brightens the dark cloud of tribulation that presently hangs over Mark's first readers and confirms Jesus' promise that those who follow and suffer for him will not have done so in vain." (NIV Application Commentary, Mark, p. 344).
Would that they made holograms with Jesus on one plane and the cross on another. I fear I will only be able to find Star Wars holograms, or old POGS (which would be better!). Still, I think its a good analogy for children to begin to understand what happened on the mountain. I will have to point out to them that while they can keep the holograms I will give them, Peter could not. The other thing I plan to do is talk with the children (again) about how Epiphany is a time during which Jesus is revealed as God's Son beginning with the Wise Men and ending with the Transfiguration.
I've missed you all. I'll be back, if not during Lent, surely during Easter and Pentecost.
RevJan
Date: 04 Mar 2000
Time: 16:23:47
Rev Jan, welcome back we missed you! Manzel
Date: 04 Mar 2000
Time: 16:26:02
RevJan,
Thanks for the children's sermon tip -- I was truly getting desperate and hadn't found anything that worked. The hologram will be just right. Thanks!
SueCan
Date: 05 Mar 2000
Time: 03:00:12
SueCan,
Let me know if you find a hologram. I had a terrible time today. Finally bought a Disney book on dinosaurs. You can bet I'll be looking for others this year . . .
RevJan
Date: 05 Mar 2000
Time: 03:33:38
for a long time i sort of assumed that jesus was taking the two disciples with him to teach them a lesson, or have them witness something which would help their faith...... that god was acting to impress them and sapeak to them..... then recently, thanks to the writings of Fr. Ed Farrell, it occured to me that Jesus went up the mountain for himself.... and god was acting to speak to him, for his enlightenment, his faith, for his benefit. The disciple were just acessories. Jesus needed to hear..."you are my son in whom i am really pleased" we all need to hear that affirmation, that boost, hear a word of engouragement which adds to our heart.
pastordon,elmira,ny donaldhoff@aol.com
Date: 05 Mar 2000
Time: 04:28:13
It was a nice day .... a good day for fishing......... Peter and James and John were getting their nets ready for a trip to the lake.....when Jesus came along and said ... Come on don’t bother with that........... I ‘ve something far better for you to do............... We’re going to climb that mountain...... To pray
What a waste of a day.... the three thought..... they could have caught many fish..... but instead Jesus wanted them to go along with him and pray......... Whatever next............. And at the top of a mountain too................. But still .. This was Jesus asking........ So they dropped their nets, went with him and started to climb the mountain.
They climbed for a long time.......and got very tired....... but Jesus was quiet and reassuring...... he just kept on walking and the three men followed until they could go no further..... they were exhausted....... They sat down and waited..... while Jesus went on ahead of them.... He seemed so sure of himself.... so in touch with everything.. So calm.
The three looked around......... at the valley below them they saw the land stretching out towards distant hills and lakes.. They could see the sheep and the goats grazing in the foothills, their families and friends resting by the side of the lake..... They watched the sun dancing on the water and the heat rising from the golden sand.... They saw women washing clothes in the water, men fishing from their boats, children playing and others resting in the shade of the trees.
As the three watched ........ their whole lives opened up before them..... all their dreams and hopes, their disappointments... and pain, their sadnesses and their joys.... They were overwhelmed....
They felt as if they were connected to the whole of the earth.. as if they were touching the energy of life itself.. drawing them inward.... and upward.... deeper and deeper ... as if the force of creation was pulling them towards its centre and source...........
There was no weight... no pain... only joy.. light... and gentleness............
As they looked around they saw Jesus.... standing between two others and talking with them...
They saw Moses carrying the law tucked under his arm..... He was insisting that the people worship only the one true God......
And they saw Elijah........ he was emphasizing the necessity of keeping the tradition of the law alive ... and he was talking about the importance of remembering God’s relationship in the history of Israel
And right in the middle was there very own Jesus......... Dressed in dazzling white....... Listen to him the voice said........... He is the chosen one.......... my beloved........ .the one who will lead God’s people on into the future.
There they were ........ surrounded by light....surrounded by the glory of God...... talking ........... praying ......... and Peter .........and James.......... and John watched in wonder.
How beautiful it is on the mountain.......... to be a part of the vision............. Away from the harsh realities of life............ And yet......... Peter, James, and John had become more in touch with life than they had ever been before...........
They wanted to stay........ pitch their tents ...... and hang on to the vision that had been revealed to them............ They wanted to capture the moment........... make it last forever............... to live the rest of their days in the power of God’s wonder. ......
Peter, James.... and John had seen Moses ..... Elijah....... and Jesus.... surrounded by the glory of God............... They had heard the voice of God.
yet .... they thought.... this cannot be so..... it was impossible..... Moses and Elijah had been dead for hundreds of years.... What did this mean. , and they looked again............ And Jesus was alone..........
It was all over in an instant..... Are you glad you came..... he asked....
Suddenly the three felt sad............ they had wanted to go fishing....... they had not wanted to leave the valley and climb the mountain to pray....... And now they didn’t want to go back........
Jesus, seemed to know what they were thinking.. Yes, he said..... you would have missed the opportunity............. I needed you to come with me................ I chose you..... My life is almost done........ The time has come....
And now I need you to go down off the mountain......... You cannot stay here.............. Thee will be other mountains........... Other moments of opportunity............. Go and bear fruit..............
Go into the valleys, go into the villages........... and share the good news.............. Share the love of God in all you do and with all you meet........ Love one another as I have loved you.
Jesus invites us all to walk with him............ to climb that mountain... to take time out from our busy lives.... To experience the wonderful love of God for ourselves..... to know what it is like to be in touch with the centre of God’s creation.... the source of life itself...
Jesus also sends us back into our communities and families...... To look around and see the pathways into the villages and communities and remember the rest of Jesus’ words....
The love of God will be with you.......... Go now........... I need you to spread my word..... heal my people..... share my joy.......
Lead them to the mountain top .......... Offer them the vision..............Fill them with fire......
Go among them..... heal..... love....... teach....... Bring them to me...........
And as you go...... feel the power of God..... feel the light...... the joy of the Holy Spirit lifting you......
moulding you...... healing you....... forgiving you..... loving you...... and carrying you
And always the love of God will be with you ..... helping you to shape and live your life in God’s service...... helping you to take that extra step....... and walk that extra mile.....
Go... bring my people to me.............
suspense QU
Date: 15 Mar 2000
Time: 18:26:42
Dear Pam in Tampa,
You seem somewhat to be presented with a challenge here to understand what is happening in your congregation. It seems necessary for you to have some theological understanding on this talking to the dead stuff. Even though God has given me a gift of Discernment of Spirits I cannot give you much if any theology on it. All I can really say is that it is something which requires your prayer. From my "experience" (a word which is sometimes frowned upon) I have found that these occurences are usually associated with what is called (for better or worse) an open door. ie if a person or group of people are open to conversing with spirits or with their appearance then occassions like your pastors death may trigger these sorts of happenings. There may be a link through someone in the church who has dabbled in the occult, such as ouji boards or spiritism, who is the door through which this sort of thing occurs. An attitude of acceptance of these occurences by other people can cause an increase in the phenomenon. I have never come across a case where this is a good thing. In fact it will regularly lead people donw a path of New Age type experiences or theology. Some reading on spiritual warfare may be appropriate
My prayers for your direction go with you mel Australia
Date: 25 Mar 2000
Time: 08:06:06
When we have an experience of divine nature,it is beyond the compacity of the intellect to comprehend. Therefore we must quiet ourselves and ponder the event in the spirit that we may truly understand the message being sent. Lay Minister, Edward Jackson
Date: 25 Mar 2000
Time: 08:06:46
When we have an experience of divine nature,it is beyond the compacity of the intellect to comprehend. Therefore we must quiet ourselves and ponder the event in the spirit that we may truly understand the message being sent. Lay Minister, Edward Jackson
Date: 25 Mar 2000
Time: 08:06:54
When we have an experience of divine nature,it is beyond the compacity of the intellect to comprehend. Therefore we must quiet ourselves and ponder the event in the spirit that we may truly understand the message being sent. Lay Minister, Edward Jackson
Date: 25 Mar 2000
Time: 08:07:11
When we have an experience of divine nature,it is beyond the compacity of the intellect to comprehend. Therefore we must quiet ourselves and ponder the event in the spirit that we may truly understand the message being sent. Lay Minister, Edward Jackson